CD Baby Founder, Derek Sivers, on the Habits of Successful Independent Musicians: Podcast Episode 13
In this episode of the Music Marketing Manifesto Podcast, CD Baby founder Derek Sivers, joins us to discuss how he transitioned from musician to owner of the world’s largest distributor of independent music. He also discusses some of the defining patterns and traits he observed in their best selling artists.
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And as always, I’d love to hear what you think about the topics discussed on this episode. What do you think about the impact Derek Sivers and CD Baby have had on the music industry? What do you think about Derek’s advice for up and coming musicians?
Oops! Not roller coaster time yet = “Get the Secure Advantage from Quicken Loans. Select a low monthly payment option now and increase your cash flow by thousands!!!” 2005 continues to live…Quicken Loans must still be able to unload their loan portfolio in the resale market. However, many sub-prime lenders are closing their doors (rather than honor buyback provisions.) The music will soon stop.
Im truly enjoying the design and layout of your blog. Its a very easy on the eyes which makes it much more pleasant for me to come here and visit more often. Did you hire out a designer to create your theme? Excellent work!
Second TrimesterDuring the second trimester (weeks 14 to 28), the baby has transparent skin covered in fine hair (languno) and a waxy protective coating (vernix). Some of thes occur naturally, such as, fungi. Jufnxsggc Becersllr wozkdclvv
Apprezzo moltissimo l’attitudine tipica di noi donne a costruire una bella rete di rapporti sociali. L’idea per un circolo… qualcosa di “benefico”? Cioè vi trovate e create magari qualche progettino a favore di qualcuno…
“Patience always,always pays off in the end.”I would add that a thick skin doesn’t hurt either.Gary – tell your realtor to shove it and remind him that unless he is a CPA or otherwise qualified individual he has no business offering financial advice. Oh and ask him if he is willing to guarantee that his wonderful plan will work by offering to take on your expenses if it doesn’t.Love how people like to play with other peoples money.
Süper bi seyahat rehberi olmuş abi :)Ama demişsin ya paraya kıyıp daha iyi firmalarla gidin diye, ben abertıyorum paraya kıyıp uçakla gidin.Ankara’ya uçakla gidip Rize’ye bilmemne seyahat ile dönmek gibi bir çılgınlık yaptıkran sonra tek tavsiyem bu.
joe should put copies of his report with local state and federal prosecutors and make them go on the record either way. we need to know who is with us and who is with the enemy.
One could almost come to the conclusion that you feel sorry for Europe, Greenfield 🙂 Why would Cameron raise the Armenien genocide with Erdogen, (as if that is something out of the ordinary in Europe, the continent is built upon genocide) when he didn't raise the Indian genocide with Obama?
In my view this consistent disrespect and ridicule pointed at fellow catholics – folks who happen to have different taste and sentiments will slowly eat this community up.Personally I very much liked/like Kumbaya my Lord – nothing wrong with it really in my view.As we tell our kids:If you can’t say anything nice…
áòõтûðýð äёôþрþòýð хþрþшøù ÿõôðóþó ø úûðÑÂÑÂýыù руúþòþôøтõûь. ãчøтõûь ÿþ øÑÂтþрøø тþöõ þчõýь úûðÑÂÑÂýыù!ÃÂõ ýðôþ ýð ýøх ýðóþòðрøòðть….
Bellmanmuseet på Långholmen bjuder på fika som lever upp till alla smaklökar du kan tänka dig. I genuin miljö, med doftande syrener och odligar i fina rader kan du sitta och lyssna på bellmans dyckesvisor i stilla ro över en kopp kaffe och paj. Väl mött där.
I am ready to take action. But what can we do to stop the crazy decisions that aren’t representative of the constituents? Again contact me if anyone has ideas of how to intentionally work at the very wrong things that are happening in Topeka right now. It is a national embarrassment.
I didn't realize there was a stigma with dreadlocks. . . so I guess I don't have an opinion on them.opinion on hair- as long as it is not making more work for me, I'm fine with whatever they want.
Agreed on the peas. I know marrowfats are a bit of a pain but worth the extra effort. I think the problem is that they are worried about the colour. Obviously marrowfat peas don't have that green colour naturally…Anyway. I really want to go and visit for the beer selection. I may also have some fritters.
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MashAllah. Absolutely loved your last answer! May Allah swt bless you with the best of this world and the next, iA. It's so crazy the sister is only 21 years of age and SO wise subhanAllah, only Allah guides whom He wishes to guide.
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Hey John,
I’ve been checking out your podcasts and have really enjoyed them. Thanks for putting them up!
Derek brings up a good point of working hard to have a great product before putting all of your energy into marketing that product. While what he says makes perfect sense I do wonder if having some balance in this area also makes sense. I’m starting to realize perfectionism can really hold me back as a musician. I have a tendency to say, “I’ll put more energy into marketing when all of my ducks are in a perfect row.” You can probably guess what happens. I don’t end up putting much energy into marketing. The idea of working hard at effective marketing and actually seeing fruit from it excites me though. Do you have any insight you could share on the balance between not being lazy and working hard to get the right product yet not being held back by perfectionism either. In other words, how far should we go to make sure everything is just right before we let go and allow ourselves to put our art out there?
Hi Michael,
John here. Yes, you definitely want to have some balance. However you also want to make sure that anything you are going to try to sell is something you’re proud of.
That said, I see MANY musicians going through what you are going through. They’ll spend years perfecting their album only to finish it and they’ve already evolved beyond the songs so they scrap it and start over.
While you need to be able to stand by your art, being able to finish projects and get them out there is a huge key to success in my opinion. If you’re too much of a perfectionist you might have a hard time doing that.
If I have one talent it’s being willing to call something done because the core integrity is present (despite imperfections) and just move on. Just listen to the audio in most of my recordings 🙂
The fisherman who casts the most lines will usually catch the most fish.
But yes, it’s definitely a balancing act.
Hope that helps.
I’ve listened to this twice now, and it’s just great advice. Thanks for sharing this here, John. I’m reposting to my FB pages….great stuff, man….
Hi Michael,
Really happy to hear that. I thought Derek threw some absolute gems out there on this call too, so it’s nice to hear you reflect that sentiment. Thanks for sharing the podcast too. I really appreciate it.
Let me know if I can ever help with anything.
That was great John. You are so right in saying how Derek had a huge impact on the biz and changed everything. Not only did he change musicians ability to get their music out there and sell it directly, but the way he ran his business with honesty and integrity was very refreshing.
Unfortunately DiscMakers bought CDBaby out and all that ended. Once gone corporate, all honesty, trust and fairness were gone. Now as an example they push upon you RadioAirplay which charges you to play your music. That used to be called Payola which was illegal. Also they don’t report to your PRO or SX so they are breaking copyright law. When being on CDBaby, payments used to amount to something, now after the recession in 2008, they will post a payment of .00034 cents (is that even possible?) and log it as an actual payment although it shows up as 0.00 on the statement, and they don’t pay you anything. That is fraud, and they get away with it. Honestly if Derek was still running the company, I don’t think he would allow that to be happening.
Hi JM,
You definitely raise some interesting points about the mess that it the current copyright laws and how artists are paid for their work. Thanks for checking out the podcast and for voicing your concerns.
Let me know if I can ever help with anything at all.
Hi John,
Good interview. I was curious if there might be any stats in regards to the “Prozac For Lovers” CD that Derek speaks of around the 46 minute mark – specifically how much did the guy spend on licenses for reproducing basically a cover tune CD? As it was a big seller for CD Baby – any way to find out what this artist, or the “mastering guy” actually made if he did indeed pay licensing fees to put out this CD?
thank you again for the interview!
Hi Chad,
I personally have no idea but I’ll ask Derek if he remembers next time we chat.
All the best.
Hey John,
Thanx for sharing this insightful DS interview. So when is the N Coast NZ posse gonna rumble the S Coast? In other words… what about a recording or jam session for fun?
Let’s rumble 🙂
hey john, awesome interview! got great ideas:)
thanks:)
Hi Moin,
Great! Thanks for checking out the podcast. Let me know if I can ever help with anything.
Dear John and Derek, great combination the 2 of you discussing the buz. listening here in Montreal. thanks John for putting this together. I’m been in the biz for a very long time and each day I feel like there is another opportunity to keep climbing the ladder, another person to contact, another concert to prepare, another sale pitch to risk, it’s all connected.. you guys are always inspiring. carpa diem..peace, Mark
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the kind words. Happy to hear that you are seeing the opportunities for what they are and making the most out of them.
Let me know if I can ever help with anything.
Interesting interview, although pretty verbose in the beginning (five minutes before the interview started!)
I was really looking forward to hearing about successful CD Baby artists, but focusing on Amanda Palmer? Her husband is Neil Friggin’ Gaiman, for god’s sake! Not exactly the position most musicians find themselves in. Just by being married to Neil, she instantly had millions of people who wanted to read her blog.
Not very realistic. Of course she took that ball and ran with it, and did it well, so kudos for that. But it’s like dunking a ball after someone puts a step ladder there for you first.
How about some success stories from artists who started like the REST of us?
Thanks for the head’s up, Hitman. Was just reading comments while waiting for the introduction to finish; might skip the interview now though, as I was really hoping for some real-life advice for lesser established artists.
Wow, sort of shocked that that’s what you took from it. Amanda Palmer was brought up as an example of an artist who has created a brand that is bigger than just the songs. We spent about 30 seconds on her. Not to mention her career was extremely well established prior to Neil Gaiman. And as someone that has had a high profile relationship, I can tell you that it’s Amanda Palmer’s music and actions that have led to her success. Her relationship has nothing to do with it.
The majority of the interview centers around the questions:
“What were the most common signs of success you noticed when dealing with musicians over the years. Was there any defining pattern that you noticed, common to those who sold well?
and…
“Lets say a nephew or niece (or other young adult that was a close friend or family member) came to you and said, I want to make it as a musician but they didn’t know what to do. What would you suggest?”
Don’t misunderstand my comment. I have an enormous amount of respect for Mr. Sivers, and have been on CD Baby from way back. I also met him at a meet and greet he threw here in NY, and realized I seeing someone extraordinary who reached out to musicians at all levels of success.
I also appreciate Mr. Oszajca putting up these podcasts, and purchased his course about a year ago.
Mr. Kiehne, I actually DID listen to almost all of the podcast (about 90%), but got blown off when I posted the comment and didn’t have time to start again. There was no player control on my player, for some reason, so I couldn’t fast forward.
I stand by my comments, however. You did mention Ms. Palmer a number of times, and I don’t believe using her as an example is applicable to most artists. You might as well have used Marilyn Manson, or Amy Winehouse, which were very specific genres (and in the case of the latter, had substantial financial resources behind her – fortunately for us, or we might not have had the pleasure of hearing her.)
These are not the same musical times as ten years ago, never mind 20 or 30. The entire business paradigm has changed, and if you’re going for a “major pop star” break, good luck. Most of us would be very happy to even approach the level of Ani DiFranco, or other genre groups like Dillinger Escape Plan, Taking Back Sunday, The Districts, Local Natives, etc. I was hoping for some concrete suggestions about the business as it is as of May, 2014. As good as the interview was, there was a lot of generalities but not much specific information for those past the beginning point.
My opinion, your mileage may vary.
Hitman – I relate to where you’re coming from and find your candidness refreshing.
Where can I go to check out your music?
Hi Hitman,
Thanks for clarifying. Being a customer of the MMM course, I’m sure you’re already familiar with my take about going for the major pop star break. That’s not really what I’m advocating here, but if an artists is trying to make that leap, then they’re likely going to have to show that they can sell records on their own. I don’t see how this doesn’t apply to Amanda Palmer.
I’ll admit that I’m finding it odd that some of the sentiment here is that people would want to hear about indie musicians who are not successful, rather than about artists who have been successful by cultivating their own tribe and selling music to it, regardless of who they might have married later on down the line. Selling to your tribe is really how it’s done in this day and age and I can’t really think of a better example than Amanda Palmer.
Thanks for your feedback. Sorry to hear that you had trouble with the podcast controls. To have full listening control you must listen in iTunes.
You know, I ended up listening to the rest of this interview and I found it very informative and insightful. (Definitely way more than Amanda Palmer references 🙂 Really glad I gave it a chance after all.
Thanks John. 🙂
Thanks, Ashley.
Happy to hear you gave it a chance and found some good insights in there.
It seems like the “Hitman” didn’t listen to the whole interview. Derek is and has been *extremely* successful in (music) business and has always been very very generous in his support of indy musicians.
He “gave away” his $22 million business because he didn’t need the money. Don’t pay attention to the trolls. This a great and informative interview. Check it out!
Hi John,
Thanks for checking out the podcast. I totally agree with you about Derek. Let me know if I can ever help at all.
Great interview John. I love the way Derek thinks. Very inspiring stuff.
Thanks Sharon!