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Day one FB Ad Results – change? Happy for response to be on coaching call.
November 22, 2021
8:15 pm
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Hi John,

I've run just over one day of ads with the following stats:
- 3x ad sets (each with different interest target – The Clash, Midnight Oil, Talking Heads – these were the suggested starting points from our 1on1 session)
- dynamic creative ads mostly using elements directly from the squeeze page (headline, bits of copy, images)

Spend: $81.57
Link Clicks: 131
Leads (confirmed opt in): 10

This works out to:
$8.16/lead
$0.62/link click
7.6% Squeeze Page Conversion Rate: http:/bandcontent.com

My understanding is that these aren't great and I should change something... Do you agree, or should I let the algorithm work a bit more? What would you suggest?

Happy for you to discuss in coaching call if that would be useful – I can't listen live, sorry, but I do listen back to them.

Let me know if you need more info!

Thanks,
Jacob

November 22, 2021
8:27 pm
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Doing some DNS stuff so, just in case, squeeze page can also be found at https://content.band/fun1 if bandcontent.com isn't working when you try it.

November 23, 2021
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Hi Jacob,

Correct, those are not good results at all. There is still potential for things to improve, but the squeeze page is converting so badly that my hopes are low. What is your Click Through Rate?

A few things that might help (but there might be many things to do)

Use an image that shows you front and center instead of far away and obscured.

Check your mobile display. Many of the TP themes end up displaying the image below the opt in form. I've found they perform a lot better just under the headline. This is easy to rectify with a custom mobile view.

This is not something you are likely to change, but I'm just bringing it up because it took me a long time to decipher myself, the fact hat your artist name is content, makes it often come off as though the content I am looking at is placeholder content, generically labeled "content". It may just be me that feels that way. But we're looking for points of potential resistance here, so I bring it up.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

November 23, 2021
10:55 am
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Thanks John, appreciate the response!

Re. Image close up/far away – you recommended I change this previously, so I had an A/B test running testing the far away image and a close up one. All time funnel stats (screenshot attached – these numbers include traffic not from FB ads) show the close up image at 5.3% and the far away at 6.4%, so there doesn't seem to be much difference there. I've turned off the far away option for now.

Re. Image below headline – didn't realise that was a problem! I'm using the TP Basic theme and have now made a mobile-only version of the top block with a smaller heading, and the image above the form.

Re. name – understood. Would prefer to try and get it working how it is, but happy to try altering this at the start of the funnel later if things get desperate...

I assume having a bit more social proof will help as well – just waiting for this to build and will add as available (comments from people already signed up, No-Brainer PR).

Any other ideas?

Screen-Shot-2021-11-23-at-8.44.57-am.pngImage Enlarger

Thanks again,

Jacob

November 23, 2021
12:09 pm
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Jacob Kinniburgh said
Thanks John, appreciate the response!

Hey Jacob,

Something is off with your stats. The actual pages are converting below the overall conversion rate. You are hitting your goal 14% of the time, yet the pages say 6% and 8%. 14% is an entirely different story, and while low, it's much better. Have you been sending traffic to any of the squeeze pages or thank you pages from other sources? Or possibly run previous tests and not cleared stats? This feature has been very tested and is stable and working, so I'm confident it is not in the platform. But that needs to be rectified before you do further testing.

Re. Image close up/far away – you recommended I change this previously, so I had an A/B test running testing the far away image and a close up one. All time funnel stats (screenshot attached – these numbers include traffic not from FB ads) show the close up image at 5.3% and the far away at 6.4%, so there doesn't seem to be much difference there. I've turned off the far away option for now.

It may pay to run some ads with very different images and monitor the CTR. Just rule out the possibility that people are just not responding to these images.

Re. Image below headline – didn't realise that was a problem! I'm using the TP Basic theme and have now made a mobile-only version of the top block with a smaller heading, and the image above the form.

It's not a problem per say. Just something I've seen help. It really depends on your design and column layouts.

Re. name – understood. Would prefer to try and get it working how it is, but happy to try altering this at the start of the funnel later if things get desperate...

I can appreciate that. Just an observation.

I assume having a bit more social proof will help as well – just waiting for this to build and will add as available (comments from people already signed up, No-Brainer PR).

Any other ideas?

Screen-Shot-2021-11-23-at-8.44.57-am.pngImage Enlarger

Thanks again,

Jacob

  

Social proof should help, yes. 

I don't recall if you are an MMM 5.0 member but there is a great ad campaign refinement lesson in there that you might find really valuable right now.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

November 23, 2021
12:52 pm
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Thanks John!

Something is off with your stats.

• Yep, the TP stats are weird – I've been sending traffic from my mailing lists to the funnel as well, which is why I'm only looking at the FB numbers to assess the ads, sorry if that wasn't clear. I assumed having other (warm) traffic in the funnel would skew the TP stats, so am basically ignoring those stats at the moment. Doing two things at once – getting a bunch of warm people through the funnel to test/confirm it (and get a couple of sales), and also trying to do some broad testing on FB ads. I'll stop sending non-ads traffic by the end of this week, just didn't want to wait longer to start sending ads as well.

From memory, I think the stat numbers started looking weird after I completed an A/B test, or maybe after I changed a page at some point? I'll keep a closer eye on it in future and report back if I see anything weird again.

That said, even though the reported percentages aren't correct (107/636 = 16.8%, not 14.2%), they aren't really representative of the traffic from FB ads. Also I'm going by the FB numbers rather than the reported %s in TunePipe, so I'm not really worried about the TP stats for now. I've reset them now anyway, just to clean it up going forward.

What is your Click Through Rate?

• CTR - The click through rate for the FB ads is 5.20% over the three ad sets. I think that's OK?

I don't recall if you are an MMM 5.0 member but there is a great ad campaign refinement lesson in there that you might find really valuable right now.

• I bought MMM 4.0 earlier this year, but don't have MMM 5.0 yet, sorry – having to allocate limited budget at the moment, and thought spending the money getting ads up and running would be the way to go...

It may pay to run some ads with very different images and monitor the CTR. Just rule out the possibility that people are just not responding to these images.

• Re. your suggestion of using different images, would you suggest doing this for the ads, squeeze page, or both? Given the ad CTR is over 5%, do you still think this is the best next step, or something else? 

Thanks again for all your help...

Jacob

November 23, 2021
1:26 pm
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Jacob Kinniburgh said
Thanks John!

Something is off with your stats.

• Yep, the TP stats are weird – I've been sending traffic from my mailing lists to the funnel as well, which is why I'm only looking at the FB numbers to assess the ads, sorry if that wasn't clear. I assumed having other (warm) traffic in the funnel would skew the TP stats, so am basically ignoring those stats at the moment. Doing two things at once – getting a bunch of warm people through the funnel to test/confirm it (and get a couple of sales), and also trying to do some broad testing on FB ads. I'll stop sending non-ads traffic by the end of this week, just didn't want to wait longer to start sending ads as well.

It doesn't matter where they come from, but if they come in directly to  landing page vs the funnel page, it will throw things all out of whack. Or if you clear your stats while active people are still half way through the funnel.

From memory, I think the stat numbers started looking weird after I completed an A/B test, or maybe after I changed a page at some point? I'll keep a closer eye on it in future and report back if I see anything weird again.

That said, even though the reported percentages aren't correct (107/636 = 16.8%, not 14.2%), they aren't really representative of the traffic from FB ads. Also I'm going by the FB numbers rather than the reported %s in TunePipe, so I'm not really worried about the TP stats for now. I've reset them now anyway, just to clean it up going forward.

There are a few things that can cause those numbers to not look correct such as duplicate visitors, etc, but the goal is correct. This has been thoroughly tested.

What is your Click Through Rate?

• CTR - The click through rate for the FB ads is 5.20% over the three ad sets. I think that's OK?

That is pretty good, so it indicates a disconnect between why people are clicking and what they are experiencing when they land on your page.

I don't recall if you are an MMM 5.0 member but there is a great ad campaign refinement lesson in there that you might find really valuable right now.

• I bought MMM 4.0 earlier this year, but don't have MMM 5.0 yet, sorry – having to allocate limited budget at the moment, and thought spending the money getting ads up and running would be the way to go...

No worries. You don't necessarily need it. There is just a great campaign refinement lesson in there where I record every step of a new ad that was converting at about $3.50 and then 5 follow up lessons later it was under $1. 

It may pay to run some ads with very different images and monitor the CTR. Just rule out the possibility that people are just not responding to these images.

• Re. your suggestion of using different images, would you suggest doing this for the ads, squeeze page, or both? Given the ad CTR is over 5%, do you still think this is the best next step, or something else? 

Want to take a screenshot of your best ad and include your url link?

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

November 23, 2021
2:39 pm
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Screen-Shot-2021-11-23-at-12.34.45-pm.pngImage EnlargerThanks again John!

Re. Stats – yep, it's likely because people were still in the funnel when I reset them. I assume this will nearly always be the case, so shouldn't be too much of a problem hopefully. I've only been sending traffic to the funnel (not the page itself), but I reckon that's all it is... All good!

I've dug through the Dynamic Creative data on the ads – there aren't many conversions, but here's the combination that is getting the most at the best price:

Image: see screenshot (same as on squeeze)

URL: http://bandcontent.com

Text: "Content is an earthy, contemporary Australian New Wave-y band made by Jacob Kinniburgh – Content is Jacob, and Jacob also hopes one day to be content."

Headline: Content's Latest Single - Free

Description: The following three were much the same:

"Content is made by Jacob Kinniburgh – "an annoying musician from Australia who makes things far more complicated than they need to be, but somehow has a knack for crafting intelligent, wistful music that grooves". In short, if you are a fan of artists such as The The, Max Q, The Clash, and others like them, you need some Content."

"Turn your smile upside down, turn up the synths, and listen to this..."

"As well as working as a professional musician and writing music for Content, Jacob writes bios for himself in the third-person using the now-tired 'meta-commenting about writing about himself in the third person' joke. He finds it hard to get out of his own head – this comes through especially in his bios, but also sometimes in the music..."

CTA button: Download

 

Do you think the data from 10 conversions is enough to create the above ad as a single ad, and test that? The range for cost per conversion was from 33c to $10 for some of the elements...

 

Thanks,

Jacob

November 24, 2021
9:04 am
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Hi Jacob,

I can't make out the text in the screenshot. It's too small and blurs when I zoom in.

In your forum post above you list three descriptions that sound more like primary text, and one primary text that sounds like a description. Do you just have that labeling reversed or did you actually approach it that way?

In terms of feedback on what you are calling descriptions (assuming they are actually your primary text), the first and last are a bit wordy. They are funny, but maybe confusing to someone brand new? Just a thought. I'd be more likely to use that humour in your longer form supporting paragraphs, emails, and blog posts.

The smile upside down bit is clearer, but maybe not all that "cool". It sounds more like the daily affirmation of a school teacher than the quirky Australian New Wave artist you are trying to present yourself as. That's my take anyway. 

10 conversions is no where near enough data to know anything for sure. But you could always try using the data. You might at least get closer. It sort of depends how spready out the conversions are.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

November 24, 2021
5:34 pm
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Apologies John, I got my wires crossed when viewing the Dynamic Creative elements. Here are the correctly-labelled best performers:

Primary Text: Turn your smile upside down, turn up the synths, and listen to this...

Headline: Content's Latest Single - Free

Description: Content is an earthy, contemporary Australian New Wave-y band made by Jacob Kinniburgh – Content is Jacob, and Jacob also hopes one day to be content.

 

I've attached zoomed-in screenshots of the ads, hope that works better:

Screen-Shot-2021-11-24-at-3.24.58-pm.pngImage EnlargerScreen-Shot-2021-11-24-at-3.24.47-pm.pngImage EnlargerScreen-Shot-2021-11-24-at-3.24.53-pm.pngImage Enlarger

first and last are a bit wordy. They are funny, but maybe confusing to someone brand new? Just a thought. I'd be more likely to use that humour in your longer form supporting paragraphs, emails, and blog posts.

Thanks John, will do.

The smile upside down bit is clearer, but maybe not all that "cool". It sounds more like the daily affirmation of a school teacher than the quirky Australian New Wave artist you are trying to present yourself as. That's my take anyway. 

It was meant to be a joke (as opposed to the actual saying, 'turn that frown upside down'), so thanks for the feedback. The other primary text I used (which had the same number of conversions, but at a higher cost) was "Content sounds like New Wave music that was dug up out of the ground (in a good way). Click to listen..." - worth trying that, or try something different?

What do you recommend as the next step?

 

Thanks again!

Jacob

November 29, 2021
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I see. I did not get the joke or read that as funny. To be honest, my brain just filled in the gap and I read "turn that frown upside down", despite reading it about 10 times in different places. Until you pointed it out just now I didn't even realize it said smile. Not sure if others might have had the experience.

My general sense is that there is a lot of work to be done by the prospect. The humor is subtle and intellectual, your artist name runs the risk of looking like a placeholder, and the text I've seen so far flirts with being cryptic. I'm not saying you can't make this work. A 14% conversion rate is just one tweak away from being a 30% conversion rate, but if it were me, I would be trying to create a very clear and straight forward experience in the ad/squeeze page. Introduce the humor in your emails and funnel content. At least that would be my approach.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

November 29, 2021
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Thanks John. Will think on it, try some things, and check back in with you. 

December 2, 2021
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Hi John, some follow up on this:

Here's what I've done:

• Kept the audiences the same (24+, US/AU/NZ/UK/CA/DE/IRE, interests (each in different ad set): The Clash, Talking Heads, Midnight Oil, Devo.), $15/day each

• Changed signup page to use the following headlines (with A/B test in TunePipe):

     A– "Turn up the synths, and get yourself a free download from a band that brings a new, earthy approach to New Wave music...

     B– "Turn up the synths, and get yourself ready to hear New Wave's new 'earthy' sound with this free download..."

     (Leaning very heavily on the USP developed in the calls with you, so thanks for that)

• Remade the ads with the best performing elements based on the small amount of dynamic creative data from the first test, and using the new squeeze page headlines I'm testing (image of ads attached)

Ads.pngImage Enlarger

Results so far (it's been just over one day): started off much better (the first few conversions were around 77c), but is now averaging $3.68/lead. I know that FB's numbers are off (they have 21 leads, but I have 36 signups in TP), so I think the real cost per lead is about $2.14. 

All ad sets are performing pretty similarly ($3.20 - $4.83 per lead by FB's numbers, which are wrong but hopefully are representative, at least) – I've attached a screenshot of the results in ads manager.

Ad-Set-Results.pngImage Enlarger

Much better than before, but still not great.

The Squeeze page conversion rate based on the FB Ads stats is at 16%, but this seems a bit lower than actual. Using the number of new signups in TunePipe, conversion is around 26%, so somewhere between 16-26%. Again, better than before.

Ad link CTR is 3.87%.

I was wondering about the following:

• I have the two different headlines that I am using in the ads, and as a split test on the squeeze page. This means some people will get an ad with headline A, and a click will take them to squeeze page with headline B, etc. Is this worth worrying about? Should I turn off split testing of the squeeze page in TunePipe to avoid this?

• Should I increase the budget/s?

• Should I keep ads running a bit longer despite these results to see if it corrects?

Any suggestions/thoughts?

 

On another note, I'm still getting some weird behaviour re. stats in TP. While the above ads were live, I cleared the stats as per the first uploaded image (7pm on Dec 1).

Cleared-Stats-at-7pm-1-Dec-21.pngImage Enlarger

The next morning (at 10.30am), the stats looked like this:

Stats-at-10.30am-2-Dec-21.pngImage Enlarger

Not quite sure what's going on there, but it's similar to what was happening earlier when you noticed the stats were off, and I think it's a result of the same behaviour – the summary stats on the right are correct, but the internal stats for the A/B splits aren't right.

Let me know if you need any more info about this, or if there's anything I can do. Hope that helps.

 

Thanks, hope this level of info is OK and not overwhelming – didn't want to leave anything important out.

Jacob

December 2, 2021
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Apologies, for some reason the images get hammered by compression when I upload them and aren't really legible. I've converted them to jpg, maybe that will work?

 

Ad-Set-Results.jpegImage EnlargerAds.jpegImage EnlargerCleared-Stats-at-7pm-1-Dec-21.jpegImage EnlargerStats-at-10.30am-2-Dec-21.jpegImage Enlarger

December 2, 2021
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No luck, really not sure what's going on there. In case it's Safari causing the issue, here they are again uploaded via Chrome...

Ad-Set-Results-1.jpegImage EnlargerAds-1.jpegImage EnlargerCleared-Stats-at-7pm-1-Dec-21-1.jpegImage EnlargerStats-at-10.30am-2-Dec-21-1.jpegImage Enlarger

December 2, 2021
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Nope, images are still super compressed. Not sure what's causing it, sorry – anyone else had this issue?

Here are the images via Dropbox:

Ads:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nfk.....s.png?dl=0

 

Ad Set results:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jfn4.....s.png?dl=0

 

Cleared TP Stats at 7pm:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/368d.....1.png?dl=0

 

TP Stats at 10.30am:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0zlw.....1.png?dl=0

 

Also, the squeeze page conversion rate seems to be tanking a bit. For the life of the Ads it's at around 25%, but from 7pm yesterday to now (3pm), it's 8.3%...

Apologies for the multiple posts. Feel free to delete the ones above to clean it up!

December 3, 2021
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Hey Jacob,

That's quite a bit to process here in a post. It would take a lot of analysis to really get a sense of what is going on. I do see the odd stats in your screenshot, but yours is the only account I am seeing this in. It's odd. I'll look into it and get back to you.

In terms of your stats over all. My simple answer is it seems like testing is getting you closer to your goal, and you just need to stay the course. $2.14 may not be exceptional, but it's not terrible, and its a heck of a lot better than where you were. I'll let you know what I can find out about the stats.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

December 6, 2021
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Just to follow up on the odd stats you are seeing with the goal being greater than the the number of people that are converting on the individual steps... I had the developers look into it and everything is working as it should be. There are also no other reports of this issue either. However, if people are taken to the thank you page via a path other than the proceeding step, they will still get tracked. So it's possible that you yourself could have triggered some of these, or perhaps there is a redundant step in your confirmation process that takes a person to the page multiple times, or perhaps you reset the stats before a number of people had confirmed their email address and landed on the thank you page (post signing up). It's hard to say, but that appears to ultimately be what is happening here. I am confident that if you started a fresh funnel with a new source of traffic and did not visit the funnel pages many times yourself then you would see all of the stats be as they should.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

December 6, 2021
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Thanks John, I'll do some more playing around at my end.

From what you've said, my suspicion is that it's due to the URL redirect I set up from /contact-optin-confirmed to the funnel 'Thank You' page, as this would be resulting in slightly more people hitting that page than just those that signed up via the funnel squeeze – anyone who signed up via any other form and confirmed their email will have ended up at that page (ie. they signup on a form via the site, and the confirmation email still sends them to the funnel 'confirmed' page). Although there haven't been many non-funnel signups, this would definitely have put the stats off a bit. 

The fix: instead of using a URL redirect from /contact-optin-confirmed to my own Thank You page, I've reverted to the default. I'll see if that fixes it, and confirm.

 

From this, I'm now a bit confused about how the /contact-optin-confirmed page is represented in the funnel? I'm looking back through the setup videos in the TP Learning Centre, but can't find the section on confirmed opt in and how it works (especially with respect to the funnel stats).

In my funnel I have:

1. Squeeze

2. 'Please Click Confirmation Link in Email' Page

3. 'Thank You for Confirming' (this page won't actually be seen now I've turned off the URL redirect, as the subscriber goes to /contact-optin-confirmed instead).

 

The stats between 1. and 2. should be fine (this will represent people who entered email addresses, regardless of confirmation), but how do I tell how many/what percentage of people completed signup all the way through to confirming their email?

 

Thanks,

Jacob

December 7, 2021
3:37 pm
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Hi John,

After the changes made above, I'm still getting weird stats. Here's what I did:

1) FB ads were off for almost a day, so there was no traffic going to the funnel, and a low chance of new subscribers being part way through the confirmation process.

2) I checked the funnel signup process and can confirm there were no extra redirects or anything – submitting the registration form on the funnel page took me to the 'almost done' page (which says 'please check email', etc.), then clicking on the confirmation link in the email took me to /contact-optin-confirmed.

3) I reset my TP stats, turned on the FB ads to the funnel, and have been careful not to visit any funnel pages myself (I hadn't looked at my site or TP until just now).

Just now, I checked my stats – they suggested that only 2 people signed up via the funnel. In my contacts list in TP, I had 9 new contacts tagged as having signed up via the funnel in the time period since I had cleared the funnel stats.

I tried signing up via the funnel myself – this all worked and the TP stats updated to report that 3 people had now signed up. Apart from the total number being off, it looked OK – all the numbers in the stats seem to be internally consistent, but wrong (although I'm not sure what the 33.3% on the Almost Done page refers to?).

Screen-Shot-2021-12-07-at-1.23.56-pm.pngImage Enlarger

Screen-Shot-2021-12-07-at-1.28.31-pm.pngImage Enlarger

As a side note, I didn't actually report the stats issue to you as a problem (and probably wouldn't have if you hadn't have noticed they didn't look right in a screenshot I posted in the forum!) – I assumed I was missing something or had done something wrong and that the stats were meant to look like they did. Are you sure no-one else is getting any similar issues, but also aren't reporting/aware there's a problem?

I can't work out what it is that I've done to cause this – I don't think it's any of the things you suggested might be causing the issue  as I think I've effectively tested them all – so guess I'll have to try making a new funnel.

Please let me know the best way to do this – is it possible to duplicate the original one or some other similar way, or do I need to re-create everything from scratch?

Thanks,

Jacob

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