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1:04 am
June 7, 2011
Offline
QuoteJon Chorba said
Hey John,
That makes complete business sense. I was really just looking at it from the wrong perspective. I do have an upsell in place, so we'll see what the numbers say when I start making sales. If you could chime in on these numbers and let me know if this what I should be shooting for, goal wise...
Cost per click on FB ads - less than $0.30
Cost per subscriber - less than $1
Squeeze page conversion - greater than 20%
Follow up email open rate - greater than 40%
Follow up email click rate - greater than 40%
Sales funnel conversion - greater than 4%
Upsell conversion - greater than 20%
Would those be fair numbers to shoot for in terms of averages?
Those numbers are pretty on the money. Only things I'd say is that cost per click isn't really so important so long as your subscriber costs are where you need them to be. I have had ads cost me a lot per click that still worked because the subscribers were more valuable so don't stress that figure so much.
Your open rate will fluctuate a bit. Over 40% in the beginning definitely. Near the end of a heavy promotion you might see some open rates drop to 20% ish. And over time your open rate will go down a bit on broadcasts. Most of my matured lists seem to end up in the 25 - 35% open rate for real time broadcasts, and after the list is a few years old.
Everything is else is pretty accurate.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
1:06 am
June 7, 2011
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Terry Ali said
Jon,I wonder if you don't mind sharing how much you spent on facebook ads?
Sorry guys... I read that as "John". Just realized you were asking "Jon".
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Quick update...
So, everybody form the targeted ads has gone through the funnel and the results are not pretty!
Email 1 - 93% Opened - 86% Clicked
Email 2 - 54% Opened - 23% Clicked
Email 3 - 39% Opened - 9% Clicked
Email 4 - 45% Opened - 11% Clicked
Email 5 - 25% Opened - 4% Clicked
Email 6 - 38% Opened - 0% Clicked
I'm going to use the space below to write my thoughts out as to why I think the stats are shit...
Email 1 - Looks good...people got what they came for...the free download
Email 2 - 54% is a good open rate, so the subject line seems to work well, why aren't they clicking? Time of day, perhaps? I am sending it in between 6am-9am, while most people are at work. It clearly states that it is a video that I want them to watch and maybe they can't watch it while at work. Maybe the Video interview isn't what is best for the 2nd email...maybe take the same exact content and throw it into a blog post so they could read it as opposed to watching a video. Maybe...make the content more centered on the history or back story of the free download they got the day before...that might be more compelling. I also think asking for the sale here might be a good idea....at least linking to the sales page
Email 3 - Headline could be a tad stronger. The stats for this message are a little skewed as I changed the link. It used to be a quick message with a link to the blog post and then I changed it so that the email is the blog post and the link is to my sales page. I think the blog post in the email is a better strategy. Adding the first name into the subject probably would give it the bump I would need to get the rates over 40%
Email 4 - Good subject line but terrible open rate....My gut tells me that the offer just isn't strong. I'm offering a free Live album with a purchase of our debut album. My gut tells me that people don't care enough about me yet to want live versions of songs they have never heard. So either create more content for sale or slash the price of the album and offer only that. I would still need to play with the copy. Trying to put myself in the shoes of the fan...what would I want? A shit ton of value for a cheap price...need to really mull this one over and come up with something good.
Email 5 - Just pure shit! hahaha...I think when I figure out a better offer and a better copy for email 4, I'll have something better to completely redo 5 and 6
Email 6 - Pathetic...see above.
I also just thought of a good idea for a better upsell...writing a song exclusively for the fan. That could be a big ticket item (around $100) and would turn my loss leader of album sales into a profit machine!
If you want to listen to something that sounds like you are getting punched in the face by Alice In Chains and Metallica, suplexed to the ground by Tool and Velvet Revolver, and then picked up and dusted off by the softer sides of Pearl Jam and Soundgarden...then you need to check out one of the most refreshing new hard rock bands in quite some time...-->The Liberty Underground<--
Hey Jon,
Your open rates aren't as bad as you think. If you are using a similar approach to the one I teach and those last two or three emails are all promo emails then your open rates look about right. However the click through rates are low. That suggests that you might need to make the copy a little more mysterious and provocative so that people feel they need to click to find out just what you are talking about.
There is a big difference between "click here to watch a video interview" vs "I was lucky to survive the drive to Denver. Click here to get the story"....
I'm obviously making up a situation in the second example, but the point is to give an example of how you can dangle some info and get people to click.
Now, that said, there are times when it's important to spell out the content. But it's all about the purpose of each element of the process. Your subject line needs to get them to open, your copy needs to get them to click, the copy they find after clicking needs to get them to take action.
Another question here is how many subscribers have finished your funnel? You want to make sure it's statistically significant enough. If it was only a dozen people that probably wouldn't tell you much yet.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Ok back with a quick update and my progress/current issues
Been away from the forum for a few weeks...was pretty busy working on polishing my acoustic set, recording new songs, and going on vacation 
I haven't run any FB ads since the beginning of May just because I don't have the budget to do so. My goal for the next 2 months is to add 2 more guitar students and pick up 1-2 acoustic gigs per month and have that money go towards my FB ads budget (which I would like to be $300-$400/month). But before I run any new ads, I have to get my sales funnel working better and as John pointed out above, the issue seems to be with weak email copy.
Also...as a real quick side note....it was great hearing/seeing my story in the last IC session (Developing Your Brand). I had some small failures recently in my business and I was feeling down about it. It was such a big morale boost to hear someone else talk about me and remind me that I can be successful and I can overcome adversity...because I've fucking done it before! So, thanks for that John!
I shall now commence with me basically typing my thoughts out loud....
After watching the Developing Your Brand session, I've decided to go back to the drawing board with my email follow up series and put myself in the shoes of my fans to try to get in their head space of what they want/expect out of The Liberty Underground.
-I'm on FB and I see an ad that piques their interest enough to click it. For the sake of this example, lets say the ad is tying The Liberty Underground to Velvet Revolver. "Hey, I love Velvet Revolver...lemme check this out.." I click
-I go to a web page that tells me this band has "crunchy riffs, sleazy solos, and powerful vocals" Man, that sounds really up my alley. I love a good riff, a melodic solo, and a singer who sings and doesn't just scream the entire time or whine like a little bitch. I bite and I download.
-I get the email which has the track, some artwork, the lyrics, and a little video of the dude who wrote it explaining it's backstory...pretty cool...and the song totally delivers on what I was sold. I really dig it...He says I'm going to hear more from him in the future...cool, I look forward to it.
OK...so now I have to ask a high quality question...At this point (assuming that the fan really dug the free track and is totally open to wanting to hear more)...What would they need to hear/be told/be shown in order to become a fanatic (member of the tribe) of the band?
Brainstorming...
-Something was brought up in the Developing Your Brand session by Scott that I've kinda tip-toed around but have been hesitant to really go full boar with...and that is that the headline imagery kind of pushes a "not typical mainstream rock" vibe. I totally feel that when you listen to a rock radio station these days that you are either getting A) old classics B) new music from rock bands that are completely cookie cutter and sound interchangeable. I feel that my ideal fan feels that exact same way but I've been hesitant to really pursue that because I don't want to bash any one particular band, I don't want to sound arrogant, and I don't want to give off the notion that being a new band on the radio is "bad" because I would love to hear The Liberty Underground on a mainstream rock station. On the other hand, I could totally see cultivating an "us vs. them" mentality being very beneficial and really carving out a particular niche. Hell, even the name of the band gives off somewhat of a vibe of exclusivity (Underground). I think something I need to think a lot about is how to come off as being cool and exclusive but not arrogant and douchey. It's a fine line.
-So with the above said...I think for that 2nd email where I give my stump speech, the email copy should make more of a direct connection with the fan. Something like (and this is totally off the cuff), "hey, it's cool you checked out my music from seeing it advertised on the web. That tells me you're actively seeking out new music because you are sick to death of hearing the same crap on the radio...I feel the same way and I know so many other people who felt the same way too. What I've found is that in this day and age in the music industry, you don't need to be in the "big boy club" of mainstream rock radio...there are people out there like you who beat to their own drum and when their sick of hearing the same 10 songs played over and over again, they go out and find something else. We are a lot alike in that way...since I got an iPod in 2007, I think I've listened to the radio about 25 times and the majority of those times were probably by coincidence. I find my new music the same way you do...by going against the grain of being force fed of being told what to like by a radio station. You took a chance on new band that you never heard before that you read about on the internet..that makes you unique and awesome. I think you and I have a lot in common in that regard and when you hear the story about how The Liberty Underground came to be...I think you will agree.." --> link to video stump speech
-I also think I'm not actively promoting the sale of the record soon enough. As John talked about in MMM, it's a delicate dance of coming on too strong and not coming on strong enough. I want to build the rapport, but I think that with the ideal fan, after they hear the song that delivers on what I sold...I feel that they quite possibly want to hear more and they want it pretty quick. I've gotten a few emails (like 5 or 6) from people who after they got the free download expressing interest in hearing more now. I directed them to the sales page, however no sales were made...I'll need to think more about this and/or adjust the sales page
I'm going to stop here for today and really think more about that 2nd email. As always, any thoughts or comments would be highly appreciated!
If you want to listen to something that sounds like you are getting punched in the face by Alice In Chains and Metallica, suplexed to the ground by Tool and Velvet Revolver, and then picked up and dusted off by the softer sides of Pearl Jam and Soundgarden...then you need to check out one of the most refreshing new hard rock bands in quite some time...-->The Liberty Underground<--
Hey John,
Really glad you enjoyed the lesson. You've done a great thing with this thread. A 728% increase from just digging in and not being lazy about putting your self in your fans shoes is exceptional, and you can do it again with sales.
This is one of those things that will be easier to discuss in the next coaching call (which will happen soon), but I think you are focusing on the right area.
The very imagery you used so successfully in your ad and squeeze page copy is very tough, aggressive, cool, etc... Now you need to make sure you come off that way in the emails. I can't recall your imagery or emails as I type this so I am not suggesting you don't have that, but I suspect that this could be an area of a little weakness.
You need to match that message with the rest of that funnel. This is the brand consistency that we were just talking about in the lesson.
It will be tricky to come off as a bad-ass and also be that communicative, by I definitely think you can do it. Just need to get creative. I think the key is coming off as reluctant, but respectful of the fans. That make sense?
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Alrighty then...I've been working on redesigning/rethinking my email copy and strategies for my sales funnel so that I can boost my sales. Here is my first revision on my copy. Obviously, I won't know much without testing, but John, if you could look this over and let me know if you think it's consistent with the brand and/or if it's strong or weak.
Email 1 - The Download Link/Introduction
Subject: {!firstname} - I've Got Your Download Info Here
Hey {!firstname},
Jon Chorba, lead singer of The Liberty Underground here.
Thank you so much for taking the time to check out our song, you rock!
You can download the track here:
link
Included in the download folder you will find the MP3 of our song "Never Let Up", the lyrics to the song, and artwork.
Simply unzip the file, then drag and drop the MP3 into your iTunes or any other appropriate folder.
Keep an eye out for future emails from me. I've got some more free shit, cool shit, and maybe even some weird shit coming your way!
And remember, I really dig hearing from all of you guys and gals so by all means…shoot me an email if you ever have any questions, comments, feedback, or if you just want to shoot the proverbial shit!
Talk to ya soon,
Jon
P.S.
If you'd like to sample the rest of the album, you could do so here. link.
Email 2- Connect with the fan/stump speech
{!firstname} - this involves you.
Hey {!firstname},
Yesterday, I sent you our song "Never Let Up" from our debut album. Hopefully you had a chance to give it a few listens…
{!firstname}, I want you to know that I think you are unique and different. The fact that you are seeing this email tells me so, because you chose to be here. You chose to actively seek out new music from a band you never heard of. Most people just passively accept the shit that is forced down their throat by mainstream radio and don't take alternative approaches to finding the kind of music that they love.
I've been playing music and have been in bands for about 15 years now and people have asked me why don't I just play/write music that's more "accessible" to the majority. I tell them all the same thing…first I say "fuck off" (lol) and then i hit them with the truth…I write and play music for me first. I'm not worried about what anyone else thinks of it until after I decide that I love it. I write from my head and from my heart and if it never goes mainstream…so fucking what! There's people out there like you, {!firstname}, that will check it out. That's all that matters to me…connecting with people like you who actually give a rat's ass about music with crunchy riffs, guitar solos, and vocals that aren't auto tuned to death…ya know, 'real' music!
{!firstname}, I think we have a lot in common. Check out this short video on who I am and what The Liberty Underground is all about and see for yourself...
link
Later,
Jon
Email 3 - More Value and Social Proof
Subject: 7 True 'Rock N Roll' Moments I'll Never Forget
{!firstname},
I've been playing in bands for about 15 years now and I've seen some crazy shit happen.
Check out the 7 totally true things that have happened to me over the course of my music career
link
Later,
Jon
That's as far as I've gotten with the tweaks to the copy. I'm now trying to figure out how to make the LTO stronger. Right now, it's a free copy of our live album when you buy the debut album, so a 2 for 1 deal. After an informal poll of people, I'm sensing that a live album with the same songs from the album, isn't a strong offer to a new fan of a band. So, I'm thinking about recording some new songs and putting together 2 new EPs and bundle all of them together. The general consensus has kind of been people would rather hear more new songs than get different versions of the same songs....which makes sense. It'll take a few months for me to put it together, but thankfully, it won't cost me much as I do everything in my home studio. I could always lower the price of the record, but then I'd really have to hit with the upsell....speaking of...
For my upsell, I currently have a box set of a bunch of unreleased music from myself and from friends of mine. It has 80 tracks and I was offering it for $20. After doing the math, I would have to get like 80% of the people to bite on the upsell in order to turn a profit from running FB ads. I was thinking of a better upsell and I came up with this: We will record a song specifically for you the fan. You fill out a form telling us what kind of song you want...fast, slow, angry, groovy...you tell us what you want the lyrics to be about....and then we write it and record for you. It could be a high ticket upsell...I'm thinking $150. That way I won't a lot of people to bite on it. What do you think?
If you want to listen to something that sounds like you are getting punched in the face by Alice In Chains and Metallica, suplexed to the ground by Tool and Velvet Revolver, and then picked up and dusted off by the softer sides of Pearl Jam and Soundgarden...then you need to check out one of the most refreshing new hard rock bands in quite some time...-->The Liberty Underground<--
10:46 pm
June 7, 2011
Offline
Hey Jon,
Yes, I think the branding seems consistent. Now all you can do is test and see if you get the engagement you're after.
Only line that jumped out at me in a weird way was "Check out the 7 totally true things that have happened to me over the course of my music career". There was nothing really wrong with it, but it didn't really grab me in terms of a call to action.
Maybe just a little more conversational. Something like...
I've been playing in bands for about 15 years now and I've seen some crazy shit happen.
I just shared the 7 craziest things that have ever happened to me on the road in a new blog post which you can find here:
Link
You won't believe number 4. That girl was seriously crazy. (Obviously I'm just making that up because I have no idea what is in the post. But a little teaser like that might serve you well).
That could all probably be worded better but you get the idea.
As for the upsell, I think that might be a stretch for the upsell, because it's a big leap from buying an album. I don't know if many people who haven't even listened to the album yet would want to pay you to right and record a song for them. But I think doing something like that as a stand alone promotion might be a cool thing to try.
Instead I'd probably focus on tweaking your funnel until a more typical offer is profitable for you. For example, a $10 album converting at 5% or so with a $30 upselll converting at 20% would make you $80. That means you can afford to spend .80 per lead. That will take work to dial in those numbers but it can be done. Boost that conversion rate to 7% though and you can afford $1.12 and still break even. You could slide those numbers all over the place by boosting the upsell price by $10, or adding a stand alone promotion, promoting live shows, etc.
Hope that helps.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Quick little update here...
I tweaked my sales funnel and am monitoring stats from a new FB campaign, so stay tuned for those results. I just started it a week ago and I had to toy with some copy to get my conversions up...like I showed earlier, the simplest tweaks could make a MASSIVE difference.
I'm targeting Foo Fighters fans this time around and I basically copied the same headline for my squeeze age that I used for the Black Stone Cherry ad but just swapped out band names. I was getting ZERO responses. Changed a few adjectives and presto chango...20% conversion on squeeze page signups. The lesson here: when you are targeting fans of another band...think about why they like that band and how it compares to you and be descriptive with those adjectives!
If you want to listen to something that sounds like you are getting punched in the face by Alice In Chains and Metallica, suplexed to the ground by Tool and Velvet Revolver, and then picked up and dusted off by the softer sides of Pearl Jam and Soundgarden...then you need to check out one of the most refreshing new hard rock bands in quite some time...-->The Liberty Underground<--
Awesome Jon, I love hearing stuff like that. It is amazing how a word or two can increase results by thousands of percentage points. When you put that in perspective of how hard it is for brick and mortar businesses to up their earnings it's kind of stunning. Imagine Walmart reporting an increase in earnings of 700%. Great stuff.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
5:32 pm
April 11, 2013
OfflineGood stuff here.
How's the new FB campaign going Jon?
Also, how do you space your emails? Do you find big differences in opens etc. from changing the spacing between the follow ups?
-Elmo
11:49 pm
August 27, 2011
Offline
Just wanted to chime in and thank Jon for having the guts to start this thread.
I think it should be mandatory readying for all new members to the Insider Circle - and something for all of us to revisit from time to time to see what it takes to make a campaign work and get all the numbers dialed in.
Most give up 4 feet away from gold - hang in there Jon!
9:10 pm
June 7, 2011
Offline
Totally agree. It was such a good thread I used it as the base of the branding lesson. Awesome stuff.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Sorry for the lack of updates everyone. Been crazy busy over here!
Elmo Karjalainen said
Good stuff here.How's the new FB campaign going Jon?
Also, how do you space your emails? Do you find big differences in opens etc. from changing the spacing between the follow ups?
-Elmo
The last FB campaign went well. Similar rates as before (in the 20% range). The problem is still getting the sales funnel right. Lack of sales is putting a damper on the operation. Budget is also a concern, but I'm working hard on correcting that.
I space the emails out as follows:
1(download)-immediately
2(connect with person)-day after previous
3(social proof/blog post/more value)-three days after previous
4(the initial offer) -three days after previous
5(reminder)-day after previous
6(final notice)-day after previous
Mike Ippersiel said
Just wanted to chime in and thank Jon for having the guts to start this thread.I think it should be mandatory readying for all new members to the Insider Circle - and something for all of us to revisit from time to time to see what it takes to make a campaign work and get all the numbers dialed in.
Most give up 4 feet away from gold - hang in there Jon!
Thanks for the kind words, Mike! Wanna hear something funny? The name of my record is "Three Feet From Gold"
If you want to listen to something that sounds like you are getting punched in the face by Alice In Chains and Metallica, suplexed to the ground by Tool and Velvet Revolver, and then picked up and dusted off by the softer sides of Pearl Jam and Soundgarden...then you need to check out one of the most refreshing new hard rock bands in quite some time...-->The Liberty Underground<--
7:04 am
August 24, 2014
Offline
John Oszajca said
As for squeeze pages, host them all on one domain, so long as the top level of the domain is also a squeeze page. You just don't want to have any holes in your net is all.
Hi John and fellow IC dudes.
Can you tell me how to create different squeeze pages? Obviously they each need their own unique URL. Would one URL would look like http://www.rockband.com/squeeze-page and the next one be http://www.rockband.com/squeeze-page2, then http://www.rockband.com/squeeze-page3, etc., etc.? I imagine I should only allow one squeeze page to be followed by the search engines, correct?
How would I use Aweber to track which squeeze page was bringing in which conversion/subcriber?
I'm fortunate to have my squeeze page often rank on the first page of a google search for my band name. Is that a common occurance?
7:23 am
August 24, 2014
Offline
Email 2- Connect with the fan/stump speech
{!firstname} – this involves you.
Hey {!firstname},
Yesterday, I sent you our song "Never Let Up" from our debut album. Hopefully you had a chance to give it a few listens…
{!firstname}, I want you to know that I think you are unique and different. The fact that you are seeing this email tells me so, because you chose to be here. You chose to actively seek out new music from a band you never heard of. Most people just passively accept the shit that is forced down their throat by mainstream radio and don't take alternative approaches to finding the kind of music that they love.
Hi Jon,
I just wanted to give you my point of view regarding the line that's bolded above in your quote. To me it sounds insincere, as if you're trying to butter up the new subscriber. I know that I'd feel a bit turned off if someone said that in an email to me without really knowing who I am personally. But maybe that's just me....I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to human nature, haha....Sad but true.
Having said that, I really admire your work ethic and tenacity. I'm really interested in seeing how far you can take it.
Myself, I'm worried that my severe lack of funds will fail me when it comes to Facebook advertising. Even paying $1.00 per subscriber will be a big drain on a financially impaired guy like me.
10:29 pm
June 7, 2011
Offline
Brent Johnston said
John Oszajca said
As for squeeze pages, host them all on one domain, so long as the top level of the domain is also a squeeze page. You just don't want to have any holes in your net is all.
Hi John and fellow IC dudes.
Can you tell me how to create different squeeze pages? Obviously they each need their own unique URL. Would one URL would look like http://www.rockband.com/squeeze-page and the next one be http://www.rockband.com/squeeze-page2, then http://www.rockband.com/squeeze-page3, etc., etc.? I imagine I should only allow one squeeze page to be followed by the search engines, correct?
How would I use Aweber to track which squeeze page was bringing in which conversion/subcriber?
I'm fortunate to have my squeeze page often rank on the first page of a google search for my band name. Is that a common occurance?
Hey Brent,
You have it right. You would just create different squeeze pages on the same URL like you outlined. And yes, I would set anything that contains duplicate content of that on your own site to "no index, no follow". You can do this manually on an html page or with a plugin on wordpress.
As for how to track, you just create a unique web form for each thing you want to track and then monitor the web form conversion stats within Aweber. Let me know if you need any further explanation.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
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