Hey Matt,

Glad to hear that at least you are starting to see how changes can move the dial. Sorry to hear those changes are not quite where you want them to be.

The obvious issue is with the squeeze page. At 8.6% and $3.30 per sub, if you just got that squeeze page up to a normal 25% your conversions are coming it at about a buck. That said, targeting can also be a factor with a squeeze page.

A relevancy score of 7 is decent. But it wants to be higher. If you can push that up to an 8 or 9 and make those conversion improvements as well, you'll be screaming along.

To my eye, there is an inconsistency with the vibe of the ad, and the vibe of the squeeze page. The image n your ad looks great. But you like a pretty big time rock star. I expect a big, exciting act. Which is great!

Your squeeze page image shows a lot of integrity, and I get a better sense of who you are. But it has the grit and texture of a New York city author. 

That's just my reaction, and I might be alone in that. But I guess I would go back to the drawing board a bit with your USP and ask yourself, who is going to ultimately like my music and want to buy it once they are on my list. Then ask yourself, what excites those people about music. Then pick one cohesive presentation that gives them EXACTLY that experience in every way. Your headline, your image, even your design.

If you go with the big, rock star, approach, you might even consider customizing the site design to support that. But I would wait for a moment and settle on a copy/image approach before tweaking design. 

You might also make a list of some new target audiences and split test those against your best performer.

Sorry, you're in the thick of it right now and it must feel like your in quick sand a bit. But once you grab hold of that stick you'll be able to pull yourself out. Unfortunately your blindfolded at the moment 🙂 

But it's there.

Matt Shapiro said
Hey John-

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, i see the disconnect you're talking about. I do think the rockstar-ish aesthetic works with the music. And is what will drive people to buy ultimately. I think it's that mythology- the atmospheric, ethereal/ mysterious -but still earnest -rock singer.  Gonna watch the customizing video and see where that leads me. I feel like the squeeze page looks a bit too "sell-y" at the moment- the huge arrow , the bold red writing....I'm not sure those jibe with the story I'm trying to tell....

It's certainly possible, but I would caution that the bold "selly" aspects of the squeeze page do tend to work well despite most people feeling the same way you do. They are the defaults for a reason. That said, each audience is different so you never know. I still feel very confident that you can convert well with the current design. I would probably stick with it and focus on copy/targeting and then, once things are up over 20% you could make design changes. At least that way you would have an acceptable control.

Anyway, more to be revealed I'm sure.

Regarding the Aweber Legacy Follow-Up open numbers...do those seem normal to you? Should I be concerned about this? See below.

1) Here's your Download Link - 65.8%

2) This Involves You - 35.8%

3) I Finally Caught Up To That Song - 26.9%

4) THANK YOU - 33.3%

5) Save 30% on My Album - 26.9%

6) FINAL NOTICE - 46.7%

They are pretty normal. The first, second, and the third one are a bit low. The 6th one is actually pretty high. But with the 3rd one being low, the relationship may be a bit light before going in for the sale. In other words, more people are seeing your promotions then the actual content. That is not usually how things are balanced. That said, it's not terrible or way off. Just room for improvement.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Matt Shapiro said
Hey John-

Point taken re: selly aspects. I don't need to reinvent the wheel. I suppose what comes up for me is a fear when music fans smell marketing they're heading for the hills. I know I do. yet I suppose when I'm presented with something that speaks to what I'm into, it doesn't actually bother me. It's more like "oh, cool."

That's exactly it, and it's important. A big part of marketing is qualifying your audience. You drive off those that aren't interested while attracting those that are. Too subtle of a message and those that aren't interested still aren't interested, and those that might be, don't recognize the value of the offer and they move on too. Still, I totally acknowledge that there is a fine line. Especially with music.

2 Questions:

1) I want to flip the color scheme of my site- have shown it to some friends and got a "hands-down-this-is-better" reaction. I've heard you say that a white background generally does better than a black one but I feel it matches my vibe- and my ad- a little better. Thoughts?

The "I showed it to my friends and they all agree" thinking has thrown more people off course than I can count. What people say, and how they act are just two completely different things. The simple MMM template will not win any design contests. That is intentional. It's a blank canvas that doesn't get in the way of the copy. There definitely occasions where a darker theme can work. But lighter will win in the huge majority of split tests. That is not to say that you can't create darker feeling designs with light content areas. In addition to the fact that darker sites tend to suffer in conversions, one big factor is that reading white text on black is really fatiguing on the eyes when you read a long blog post. Your vision literally starts to blur as the white light of the text leaves imprints on your eyes. If it were me, I would improve things as is and then experiment with the design. That said, you are certainly free to play with it now. I don't think design is going to be the make or break it difference. 

Also, when I do flip the color scheme the sign-in form doesn't flip and so the black writing is lost on the black background. How would I remedy this?

The sign up form is controlled by Aweber. So you need to go into Aweber and edit it there.

2) Re: Split testing Squeeze Pages. I see there's an Insider Lesson about that from 2013. Is that tech still applicable??

I haven't used it in a little while, but yet, the split test script should still work. Let me know if you run into any trouble with it. 

Matt Shapiro said
Hey John-

Ok, ok. Point taken. I will cool my jets re- design stuff and focus on targeting and squeeze page elements to get my cost/sub down as low as possible.

I'm not necessarily telling you not to redesign. There is nothing wrong with a customized theme. I just don't think it's the major issue. I have battled for years with clients over the "everyone agrees this doesn't look as good" thing. As a general rule, slick designs hurt more than they help. But there are plenty of exceptions to that.

I've been thinking about my USP, and targeting. So far, I've been aiming at "Fans of 80's New Wave" and that has yielded ok results when targeting fans of bands of that era (e.g. Blondie) as opposed to more modern bands with roots in that era (Killers, Arcade Fire). These are mostly people age 35-55. Problem is I don't think that's the real audience for what I'm doing. It's one potential audience but not the sweet spot, I don't think. Also, positioning myself that way makes me sound more like a nostalgia act and I don't think that's accurate. I think what I'm doing has a fresh and modern sound with retro elements that harken back to the 80's and even 50's rock n roll era at times. Kind of like the Indie bands of the 2000's (The Strokes, Interpol etc...) but not in the same way. 

So, re: USP, Here are some things friends/ collaborators have said:

"Dark, emotional, something throwback-y to dusty 50s rock n roll....I could definitely imagine listening to these tunes in an old convertible w/ tail fins, driving through the desert on the way to Vegas...I always find that your voice has a bit of a pop-goth thang going on a la Depeche Mode"

"It’s nostalgic and fresh at the same time. I can totally hear all of your music in a movie...sweet but still dark...early Elvis meets The Cure and Nick Cave....Hearthrobby 80’s Nostalgia.I want to listen to it driving down the PCH." 

Anything jump out from that?

Yeah, a few things jump out there. Can you link to a song or two so I can hear it for myself?

One issue is that you are talking about a lot of retro themes and sounds that will appeal to a much older crowd, but then mentioning that it is current and contemporary. I think I see that disconnect in your ads and squeeze page as well. My take is that you ad creates the feeling of something contemporary and young, but your squeeze page feels more like the more mature person you probably are in real life. You are sort of saying a lot of the same things above.

The picture you paint with those quotes above conjures up a USP (or possible ad/squeeze page copy) along the lines of "If Quentin Tarantino, Urge Overkill, and Elvis Presley all crammed into a Cadillac for a road trip to Vegas, they would be listening to Matt Shapiro on the radio the entire way." 

But I'm just sort of making that up based on the descriptions. If I used copy like that I would literally want to have a picture of you sitting on the back seat of an old convertible Cadillac in the middle of a desert. For me something like that would click.

But then the music would also have to sound like that, and your story would also need to be enticing/entertaining.

My current squeeze page headline:

NYC-BASED INDIE ARTIST MATT SHAPIRO BLENDS REVERB-SOAKED 50’S SWAGGER WITH A LO-FI TAKE ON 80’S NEW WAVE FOR A DREAMY TRIP TO THE DRIVE-IN ON THE DARK SIDE OF TOWN…

 

Another version I'm playing with is:

NYC-BASED INDIE ARTIST MATT SHAPIRO BRINGS SWOONING, REVERB-SOAKED EMOTION TO HIS DARK, 80’S-INFLECTED POP -HERE’S A FREE DOWNLOAD…

OR

“IF YOU LIKE BROODING VOCALS, SLEEK POP HOOKS, AND BITTERSWEET LYRICS THEN CHECK OUT THIS FREE DOWNLOAD FROM NYC-BASED INDIE ARTIST MATT SHAPIRO……”

What are the strongest bits of these? Thoughts???

THANK YOU!!!

Matt  

The words that jump out at me are "reverb soaked 50's swagger", "Dark" and probably "80s". But I think maybe there are some clashes there. 80's and 50s are definitely different things and you could throw people there, and I think New York is so synonymous with grit and integrity, that 80s pop and dreamy 50s tones seem like a clash. Let me here the free track and maybe I might get a better sense of things.

Ok, that brings it into a lot more focus (at least for me). I don't know why I didn't ask to hear this sooner.

For me, it immediately reminds me of bands like She Wants Revenge. Though there is a lot in there that reminds me of Prince in there as well, though with more alt rock tones.

I do get why you have been saying dreamy, and 50's, and 80's and the rest of it. It's all there. But, to me, it's all there in an "influences" kind of way. I would not listen to your stuff and think that it was obviously for Elvis fans, cure fans, or fans of 80s music. They might like it of course, but it's not a straight enough line. The Killers is closest to me, but not a slam dunk to my mind.

If I was going to establish your USP right now, without looking any deeper I would say "Dreamy Electro Punk".

I would try targeting fans of She Wants Revenge and I would dig deeper in the audience insights tool and the interest suggestions from FB to see what else came up.

I would also go with your dreamy imagery rather than the New York stoop thing.

There is a lot of theatrical feel to this (like you've mentioned, and also similar to Prince). I would go with that and make your site look like the smokey background you have on your image, so that the entire experience from the moment they land on your site is consistent with "rock star". And yes, I know I am completely contradicting my last statement about design. But I also standby the point that design should be last on your list and you don't have to wait to run traffic.

Another helpful exercise that you might like... 

Find a band that you think is a sonic dead ringer, then look up reviews of that band, and find cool language that the journalist used to describe them, and modify it a bit and use it as ad copy.

For example, here is a Pitchfork review of She Wants Revenge: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/.....revenge/ 

While the review is not that positive, there is some cool language in there that, with a little tweaking and positivity added, could be used to describe your stuff (in my opinion), and (if you think SWR is on point) would likely connect with their fans because it's already associated with them.. 

"sprawling drone operas".

"clubby goth-stompers".

"an overcast surf riff that crashes at the chorus, t-boning an equally menacing synth".

With a little digging you should be able to find some better ones. I just use those as an example.

Any of that resonating with you?

In fact, I tell you what... 

I can't promise I have the time cause I'm super busy, but if you want (and if time permits), I might be able to really quickly login and make some design tweaks to your site to show you what I'm thinking. But I need some elements. Email or private message me f you're interested and I'll see what I can do. No promises 🙂

I like your stuff, and I feel like I can see this connecting with people.

Hey Matt,

Haven't forgotten about you. I just need a spare moment to go over everything. Will hit you back shortly.

Matt Shapiro said
Hey John-

Thanks again for taking the time to listen and the helpful feedback! So good to get that outside perspective. 

That's what I'm here for 🙂

My thoughts:

Dreamy Electro-punk fits and sounds cool. Am I edgy sounding enough to merit "punk"?

It's a fair point. You don't actually sound punk, but there is a feeling that is a bit punk, and the word punk makes me look in the right direction (so to speak), but you could be right and maybe it won't ultimately work. But I think it might. Maybe if it didn't I would say "Electro Punk on Opium" 🙂

Suicide was a big influence on the sound of this record and i think they're kind of categorized as electro-punk pioneers. Tried targeting those fans buts they're ultra niche and pre-date the FB era by too much. 

I think you're spot on about the theatricality. It's an important element.  "cinematic" is a word I've been trying to shoe-horn in there forever. Attaching a couple of additional recent pics at the bottom- do you these play up the theatricality in the right way?

I don't know that band but they sound similar enough. But I think you're probably right that they are not well known enough.

Funny, I don't know She Wants Revenge other than the track they did with Timbaland a while back. Just checked out some of their stuff and see what you mean- some of the textures and edge in the sound are in the same ballpark. but I think they sound much sleazier/ cocaine-ish. Love some of the stuff you dug out of that review though. Will dive in there and see what i can find. 

I'd say they are a bit sleezier, but that doesn't necessarily make their fans a different audience. Guns and Roses/Poison, the Beatles/ the Stones, Bob Dylan/Donovan, were all totally different from one another but they had huge crossover audiences because some aspect was similar. That's all we really need to hone in on.

Never heard of David Garza but get what you mean on that one too.The dreaminess the sensitive/ self-aware/ romantic vibe. Really loving this tune. I think I'm somewhere between him and SWR.

I don't know that he would be big enough either, but possibly.

Also have never gotten the Prince thing but I'll take it! I'm guessing it's the falsetto bits?

I'm surprised. Your song Rockaway Girl and Prince's Let's Go Crazy are very reminiscent of each other to me. You're just missing the megaphone-esque narration in the beginning.

I've been digging into like reviews/articles about like-artists for a while but not sure I know a ringer band so I've been trying to cobble bits and pieces from different artists. 

I'm a big fan of not being precious and just trying things until something works. I think you could do it with SWR, possibly even a band like Duran Duran (even though you are much more modern).

Take a look at the suggestions that come up when I pull up SWR in ad manager. It's crazy on point with bands we've mentioned and some that have come up in reviews. 

You need to keep in mind, we don't ever need to mention SWR or any band. We need to find the right audience and then find descriptive language that they will relate to. The fact that FB's suggestions for SWR are so on point with band's you've mentioned makes me feel confident we have landed firmly in the middle of a clear audience that will likely respond to what you do. Now I would go research reviews for those artists and find sentences and descriptive terms, image themes, etc, that apply to you and put  an offer together. Then start split testing all of those candidates for targeting options and see what happens.

Also, how to include the self-aware/ sensitive part?

By nodding to words and other artists that make that clear. Like "punk" even if you aren't exactly "punk". It;s sort of like the Clash. Most of their stuff doesn't sound very Punk to me, but their attitude is pretty punk and you can definitely call them punk. But hey, maybe that's not the right descriptor. 

As you said:

"I think there is a fine line with your stuff. It has this prince, 80s thing, but it is self aware. The self aware thing is important. Otherwise it runs the risk of being perceived as “just 80s sounding stuff” or possibly even dated... I just think the imagery, tone, design, and copy, has to be the thing that nods to the fact that you are a modern, edgy, take on an older poppy sound."

HUGE THANK YOU!!

Matt

  

All of those images work for me.

Hey Matt,

So sorry for the slow response. We have had a doozy of a two day period in which a simple 2 hour server migration turned into a nightmarish 2 days of issues and comments and forum posts were not saving. I only discovered this when I tried to reply to you a few days ago but my comment wouldn't stick.

Anyway...

What I initially said was...

Hey now! Those are all great. What an improvement.

What I would do now is use Dynamic Creative to run each one of those as one of the variables. Set your objective as "traffic" and keep your budget low. No more than $5/day. Though you might then duplicate the ad set and try the exact same combos on two more target audiences.  Your only objection is to get a feel for what is working. It doesn't matter right now what you pay for conversions. That said, you should still make sure you have a conversion goal in place so you can track things. Split test images and other variables as well, like I show you in the Dynamic Creative Lesson.

After 2 - 5 days, when it seems like you have some clear cut data, turn off everything. Then create a new campaign and create just one ad set (one target audience) and use all of your best performing creatives and targeting options. This time, bump the budget to at least $10/day (if you can afford the risk) and set the objective to conversions. See what happens.

The only exception is that if one of your campaigns is doing really great as is, and you are bringing in subscribers for a really good price, just turn off the creative elements that under performing and let it keep running as is.

Report back and let us know how it's going.