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8:39 pm
June 7, 2011
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QuoteYes, I really would. Once you get in a groove it really doesn't take much time. I change up my ads every few days and unless I'm creating a whole new ad from scratch, it only takes a minute or so. Copy, change targeting, order. But learning what works and what doesn't yourself, has been the only way for me.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
4:24 pm
June 10, 2011
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ok got it. that makes sense... i may post updates on here as I search for the "formula." I did a test with that post that didn't pan out. As I mentioned I had built up my fan page with .03 cent likes and was curious how that would translate to engagement. Just by promoting the post to those fans and their friends I got engagement at .01 cent each. Conversions are still really low and I don't know how qualified the leads are but that showed me that engagement on fb is pretty easy to accomplish, inexpensively. I don't think it necessarily translates to sales... but I guess it's good for social proof...
7:29 pm
June 7, 2011
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Yes, getting cheap engagement is not too tough. But I haven't found much value in it. It's all about the email address in my opinion. You might watch the video I posted just the other day in the Case Study forum. It sort of applies to what your saying, and is really interesting.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
4:55 am
June 10, 2011
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ok so I revisited your training and I have a question:
I narrowed my target to people who like mind body green magazine because I'm a regular contributor to the mag and I think it's the right audience. The audience size is 500,000.
On your demo, fb is offering you a max bid per click of .19 cents but for me, the range they are offering is .23 to a max bid of .60 cents. that's already in scary territory because if I'm paying .60 cents per click and let's say 30 % are opting in (and according to your vid it will likely be lower than that since a significant % of clicks will not even get to the landing page), but if we're being very optimistic, that still means I'm paying $1.80 per conversion and if 2% of my opt-ins purchase my program, I am breaking even.
Is my math correct? If so, is there a way to make the situation profitable?
10:51 pm
June 7, 2011
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Yeah, as far as I can tell you are correct. I wouldn't personally pay .60 for a newsfeed ad. maybe a right column ad. It's hard to say why you are paying that much. It could be passed performance, it could be the demographic, It could just need some time to establish a quality score. Your CTR is a bit low for Newfeed so that will be part of it. I like to see between 4 - 6% CTR for Newsfeed.
But if this was a brand new campaign you might need to give it 24 hours for the price to settle as you establish a quality score. But it could end up just being that there is a lot of competition for this particular interest.
As I've recommended before, I would stick with Right column ads fro now so that you have one less variable to worry about. You don't yet have a handle on your conversion rate, so Newsfeed ads could be tricky. But start a new campaign for the Right column ads.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
4:35 am
June 10, 2011
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I just saw your response and meanwhile I had changed the landing page because out of 13 clickthrus there were only 2 conversions. I changed it to something more like your example: http://howtomeditatewithmusic......ree-lesson the change seems to have improved things slightly... 28 clickthrus and 5 likes.
Here are the updated stats, fyi. Should i just switch to right column ad or do I need to also sort out the landing page? I thought the facebook 3.0 training was all about newsfeed ads... does it also have instructions for right column ads?
10:54 pm
June 7, 2011
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How many actual conversions according to Aweber. You can't rely on FB conversion tracking because it can't lay a cookie on mobile. It's just a guide.
The lesson was not specifically about newsfeed. Just about the many recent changes and how to manage a campaign now.
It doesn't matter what you try so long as you get the price you need per subscriber. I personally think that makes teh most sense for you, but if you are feeling like this is working for you then there is no reason you can't stick with newsfeed. I still think those prices are way to high for newsfeed. Most likely because of the CTR. 2% is low for a newsfeed ad. I like to see between 3 and 6%.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
12:32 am
June 10, 2011
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I don't care what I try as long as it works. I would just like help analyzing why things aren't working so I can make effective, efficient changes. This is all brand new to me and I don't really understand how to interpret the data: whether I should take it to mean a different call to action or a different picture, etc. There are so many variables. I know how to sell when I am speaking to someone but what people respond to in this combo of visual and written word is a mystery to me, so any insight/suggestions are welcomed.
From what I can tell there is a problem both with the # of clickthrus as well as the conversions once people get to the landing page. Fb's numbers are accurate with regard to how many opt ins I got on this campaign and for this specific ad.
Also, it sounds like what you're saying is that I could just have a bad quality score and that could be throwing the numbers. Not sure how I would fix that, if so.
Alot of variables. I'd recommend doing a more in depth tutorial on winning headlines, calls to action, photos, etc. Like an over the shoulder of a financially successful campaign.
Meanwhile, any insight you can offer from experience would be greatly appreciated...
8:49 pm
June 7, 2011
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Most of this is covered in the recent FB advertising lesson. At least in terms of campaign management. The way you would rectify it is start a new campaign with a freshly uploaded image. Every time you do that you are starting from scratch. So if your quality score is down then start with a new ad in a new campaign. I usually start by changing the image. if a few changes don't get me anywhere, I change the copy. I think because you are finding things confusing that right column is going to be much simpler. I have never seen FBs conversion stats be accurate on any campaign, ever. Sometimes they are as low as half. Usually closer to 70 or 80%. They have no way of tracking mobile conversions. You need to monitor Aweber stats and just take their conversions as a loose guide.
Training on headlines is really hard because it varies so incredibly from person to person. All I can do is spell out the basic principles of a good headline, which I've done in various training lessons and MMM.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
9:39 pm
June 10, 2011
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ok got it. I'll keep experimenting. btw the stuff that's going on with aweber right now (ddos attack) reminds me of what I went thru with my site last year for @ 3 months til I found a solution. I recommend a firewall with a company like cloudflare to protect your sites. It can be a hassle with some integration stuff but it stopped my site from being repeatedly shut down and I haven't had a problem since...
11:04 pm
June 7, 2011
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Sounds good. Cheers.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
7:17 pm
June 7, 2011
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There you go! Well done.
Just do that a few thousand times and you'll be sweet 
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Julianna Raye said
... I got 3 cent likes to build my fan page by doing the english language multiple countries approach...
Hi Julianna:
I've been reading this thread with interest in general, but your above quote really caught my eye. It seems to me that paying so little for page likes would be a cost-effective way to test different images, headlines and copy for Facebook ads, and then taking the winners and building ads that click through to your squeeze page (maybe that's what you were doing?).
Anyway, I've been experimenting with various different approaches and haven't yet come near .03/like; would you mind briefly explaining what you did to get those results? Are you just talking about targeting only English speakers in different countries?
Also, when I run an ad for likes, it looks like I'm optimizing for CPM, and can't choose CPC instead. Was that your experience?
Finally, John, if you're reading this, do you have any opinion/advice on getting super-cheap clicks on FB, just to test your creative?
Thanks for reading, Julianna! (and John 
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
12:49 am
June 7, 2011
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Hey Mike,
I don't personally know of any short cuts. If you advertise outside of the US, and depending on the countries, you are possibly going to start pulling in a lot of click farm traffic, or even just poor quality traffic. So while it's true you'll get cheap likes, if those followers don't continue to engage then your edge rank score will go down and you will actually lose the reach you have with your existing followers. I personally don't think the focus should be on building up likes unless you just feel you need it for social proof or something, or you've got it dialed in enough that it's converting into sales for you. But I haven't personally seen that type of cheap traffic do very well in terms of sales.
The problem with using cheap traffic for testing creative is that if it's cheap, it's generally not a quality audience. If it;s not a quality audience then you have no idea how well or bad your creative is actually doing. Make sense? I think you;d be better off spending normal amounts but with a very limited budget. Even $5 a day until you got things dialed in. That's just my opinion.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Thanks, John - good point about the click farms and low-quality traffic.
I was thinking about doing this essentially without regard to whether those clicks ever turned into sales, just wanting to find out which combination of elements got the highest CTR from fans of similar bands, but if they're not actually the ones who are clicking my ad (and click farms are), well then that kinda blows up my whole plan.
Your normal bids + low budget plan makes sense - guess I'll go ahead with that. Thanks.
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
5:40 pm
June 10, 2011
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Hi Mike,
What I've seen on my page is that I get strong engagement from those likes when I post an article I've written, for example. So, it seems like they are engaged in my fan page content, for what that's worth. But I don't even know what click farms are so I'd love to understand more about that John. I thought when you advertise on fb's ad platform, you avoid that kind of stuff but sounds like you are saying something different. Also John, maybe you can explain why, despite the fact that I targeted all the countries below, the majority of my clicks came from india and philippines. Is that because fb was optimizing the cost per click and that's where they were cheapest?
I think for the meditation program I'm selling it was not particularly useful to build those page likes for exactly the reasons John said. And, I'm not sure that it will give you useful info about creatives Mike, because you want creatives that appeal to the audience you're actually selling to. But, then again music is a universal language. Many of the countries I targeted would make perfect sense for my music, for example Brazil and Argentina.
Anyway, even though I targeted all the countries below, most of my clicks came from India and the Philippines. But here are the countries I targeted and yes, I selected English for the language:
7:11 pm
June 7, 2011
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There are probably a couple of reasons why you got the majority of your traffic from those countries, despite bidding on more locations.
1. They would be the cheapest and therefore they would end up dominating your spend. As I pointed out in the Facebook Advertising 3.0 lesson, you should not be mixing up your targeting like that where you have all of your countries in one campaign (now an "ad set" following the recent changes at FB). You want to group them by markets. IE USA and Canada, Europe, Asia, etc.
2. That's where a lot of the click farms are.
Click farms are not something Facebook is doing, in fact they are fighting it. But it's a problem that can affect legit advertisers.
Here is a great video that explains what can happen:
Note*** That video is great but a lot of people seem to be misinterpreting it as saying that Facebook Ads are somehow a fraud. The real takeaway is simply don't promote your page in certain countries and probably don't promote your page for "likes" at all.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Great - thanks for the informational response, Julianna - appreciate it! Let the split-testing continue...
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
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