John, this training cleared some things up for me. Can I just say it was excellent??! Thank you, thank you, thank you!! And to answer your question: more advertising trainings, not less please!! I've been spending a good chunk of money on a Facebook ad campaign. I'm getting my CTRs up, ad costs down, and squeeze page conversions up...and I'm going to have some stuff to share at a later date!
As a prelude to what I'd like to share (later), I'd like to encourage people to be as mobile friendly as possible on all fronts. Here's something to ponder: Facebook’s 101 million US daily mobile users make up a whopping 78% of its 128 million daily US users. In my opinion, you must have a mobile squeeze page. You need a way for people to listen to your music without downloading a zip file (a zip file is really cumbersome on phones, in case you haven't tried!). Your thank you page and every part of your funnel needs to be mobile friendly.
I really do think that mobile is where it's at and where it's headed. I'm converting at 40% on my mobile page, and that's after collecting a fairly large sample. I'm converting at 30% on my desktop squeeze page. Funny how that reinforces what you have always said: more info doesn't necessarily help people make a decision -- it usually hurts. On the other hand, a desktop squeeze page would look pretty stupid with the bare-bones copy I have on my mobile squeeze page! LOL!
My CTRs have been up around 5%. I try not to let them drop below 2%. Obviously, I'm talking newsfeed ads. In my opinion, right column ads are headed toward obsolescence, and I'm thinking about just eliminating them completely.
The short story is: if I had three or four albums (a little higher subscriber value), I'd be dumping money into Facebook ads like nobody's business. I think I can still do ok, but it's going to be tight, and I'm going to have to work harder and sweat a little more than some of the other IC members should have to. LOL! And I need to get my next freaking album out!!!!
That's great, Charley - congrats on those killer numbers, and thanks for sharing all this info with us!
Especially impressed by that 40% - is that for http://www.charleylanger.net/mobile.html ? Anything you learned through the process of optimizing that page that might be relevant to the rest of us?
Btw, I've been noticing that my mobile page converts much better than my desktop system as well, and I've basically also moved all my efforts over to tweaking mobile. And John, I'll second the motion for more ad trainings (as well as fast-tracking that upcoming case study you alluded to...).
Thx again, Charley!
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
Hi Mike!
Here's a recent, but not totally current, screenshot of squeeze page performance. Yeah, the 40% is for http://www.charleylanger.net/mobile.html. I did no tweaking to get it there. I just followed the template that John and Scott gave us, and it worked amazingly well right out of the gate. I did tweak my desktop squeeze page, http://www.charleylanger.net, and it's at 30% (actually 32% right now).
So far I've spent $200 and brought in 213 subs, for $0.95/sub. Not horrible, but not amazing, if you think of it in aggregate. However, I have two ad sets going, and one is performing 35% better than the other for the same audience. Today I shut off the weaker performer, and am focusing on tweaking the stronger performer based on what I've learned about my audience. I think--I hope!!!!--I can get my cost down to about $0.70/sub. Historically, my subscriber value was about $1.00/sub, which I have no guarantee will hold, but I feel comfortable enough to continue the testing and try scaling up some without the fear that I'm going to totally lose my ass!
Also, I should say that, for me, the ads seem to go stale at about three days. I'm sure how often one needs to change things up depends on how large the audience is. However, you absolutely must monitor your click through rates, and you need to be changing audiences or ads when your CTR goes down or you are going to be hating life. LOL!
That's it for now. I'll have more later.
Thanks guys, and awesome Charley! Thanks for sharing the stats. Really cool to see it. And yeah, how long an ad holds for has a lot to do with the audience size. Mine last anywhere from two days to as long as a month with some of the audiences that get closer to a million in size. But they always need to be rotated out with newer targeting. Some will work and some won't. And yes, ideally you want o bring those sub costs down but in my opinion anything under $1 is a win, if only for the fact that when your next album comes out you'll have a huge audience to go out to. Profit is the goal, but a break even list acquisition for future gains would be better than a kick in the head
As always, great job.
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Ok, I'm on a roll and want to share just a bit more. Here's a quick look at the ad that is doing well. I paid about $0.72/sub today with this ad set. Everything about my ad copy, images, and settings is intentional, and based on what John has taught and what I have learned about my audience.
First of all, I know that the largest part of my fan-base is female, and between the ages of 45 and 55. You'll notice that I have limited my audience to women 35 and older who have expressed interest in my "sound-alike" artists. You'll also notice that my ad is striving to appeal to emotion rather than intellect. I am not trying to get my audience to click by showing my handsome face and providing impressive press quotes -- I tried that approach in the ad that didn't do as well!! LOL!
Again, I have decided to limit my ad to the mobile platform. That is because: (1) I noticed from prior testing that most people were going to my mobile squeeze page, which obviously means the people who were clicking my ads tended to be mobile users, and (2) my mobile squeeze page converts better. Higher CTRs means lower ad prices, and better squeeze page conversions means more subscribers for the same amount of money.
Here's where I have made a departure from John's advice: I am bidding for optimized conversions. I've tried bidding for clicks, and optimized conversions has worked better for me. If a "click" meant a click to my squeeze page, I would absolutely only bid for clicks. But it doesn't. And, in my limited experience, Facebook has done a good job of tracking mobile conversions, which leads me to believe that they are using some sophisticated mobile phone signature (i.e., "finger printing") technology to track mobile users. I am only saying that you might want to experiment and see what provides the lowest cost for you.
One thing I will say about the optimized conversion approach is that you need to be patient. Set it at the beginning of the day and let the algorithm work its magic over the day. If you keep messing around with budgets, schedules, start switching ads off and on, etc., you'll confuse the algorithm. If you look at how this ad set did today, you can see that Facebook says I spent $0.72/sub. That actually was about right when I checked Aweber and reviewed how much I spent.
Ok. NOW that's it (for now)! LOL!
Awesome Charley, I have no issue at all with bidding on conversions, it's just not where I would start. But I think it's fantastic that you've been having success with it. I can't make everything out. What are you bidding per conversion and how long did you wait to establish a conversion price before switching over to conversion bidding? Really a fantastic job you're doing.
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John Oszajca said
Awesome Charley, I have no issue at all with bidding on conversions, it's just not where I would start. But I think it's fantastic that you've been having success with it. I can't make everything out. What are you bidding per conversion and how long did you wait to establish a conversion price before switching over to conversion bidding? Really a fantastic job you're doing.
First of all, thanks for the kudos!
So... I tried bidding on clicks a few months ago and was frustrated that a "click" wasn't a click to my squeeze page. It was costing me something like a couple dollars for a subscriber. So I gave up.
After your training, I thought I'd give it another go. I just thought that, since Facebook says something like "most advertisers find that optimized bidding for their desired results to be most effective," I thought I'd try following Facebook's recommendation. I discovered yesterday that it can be risky to do that if you're not paying attention. For those who don't know, optimized bidding lets Facebook set the price for your desired result. I really wish I could just bid for clicks to my squeeze page on a news feed ad!!
To anyone doing this, or wanting to do this, you should expect to screw up a few times. Prepare to be frustrated sometimes. But it can work very well.
Now I'm back to, "What did I do wrong yesterday?" LOL!
Here's a link to the screenshot that is hard to read: http://www.charleylanger.net/f......32.40.png. Seventy-two cents a subscriber, Baby!!! Ok you all, go beat that one! Seriously, I hope you do and then tell us how you did it! LOL!
Wow, fantastic, Charley! Thanks again for sharing all this information - really helps me (and others, I'm sure) with tweaking and fine-tuning my campaign.
I think I'll give optimizing for conversions a shot. I've been bidding on clicks to my mobile newsfeed ad, and thought I'd established that about 2/3 of the clicks I was getting charged for were actual visits to my website (which was still way more effective than right column ads). However, recently stopped and then restarted my ad, and that 2/3 has been taking a beating. Not sure what's up there, but I'm keeping track...
John, if you're listening, is there any way to get FB to serve your ads more frequently? I'm targeting an audience of 1.6 million Tom Petty fans, getting a 3+% CTR today, bidding 5 cents above the top of FB's suggested range...and still have a reach of only 678 over the last 8 hours. I'm focusing on testing my new squeeze page's conversion rate, and so would rather have a firehose of FB traffic right now, even if that drives my CPC up.
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
So... in my experiments I've had some good success, and I've also made some blunders. One thing is for sure: it's all about high CTRs and good squeeze page conversion. I'm not consistent in getting inexpensive subs. I'm averaging a bit over a dollar, and I'd really like it more like 0.70.
I'm going to try laser targeting using custom audiences, ad copy, photos, and squeeze pages. For example, make a custom audience of women between 35 and 55 who like smooth jazz and Massage Envy. Then make the ad copy, pics, and squeeze page all about relaxing to a free smooth jazz download. Maybe a pic of a woman getting a massage... Just thinking as I go... LOL!
An ad like that would probably only last a day.
That's awesome Charley. Good on ya as I have never had any luck with any of FB's optimizing. I always pay through the rough if I go with that, and most I know report the same. But you're obviously doing something right on that one. I would warn anyone reading this that letting Facebook optimize your bidding is pretty risky. Most lose money with that strategy.
The fact that a "click" actually means an engagement with Newsfeed ads is definitely a point of confusion for a lot of people. You just need to sort of ignore that figure and look to conversion costs. Setting your objective as website clicks might be another solution for some.
I still suggest right column ads for anyone having trouble as those are the most consistent and work well. But Newsfeed ads are where the real traffic is.
Mike - As for getting more reach... Have you tried clicking on the bid range since posting the ad? It usually changes all the time. If you have a big audience it should just be a matter of bid price and CTR. Bid enough and the traffic should be there. And the price you pay is largely a function of the CTR. If everything looks right but still no luck you might email FB and ask what's up in your case.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Thanks, John. Yeah, I go in and check the bid price a few times a day, and I'm almost always significantly above their range (I adjust it to be that way if it's not). I find that I usually end up paying about half of my max bid per click.
Bidding for Tom Petty fans in the US, 35-55, gets me an audience of about 1.6 million, supposedly; in the last 24 hours, my ad reach is...440. Maybe FB's servers haven't had their coffee yet today? ;). I'll try contacting them and see what they say.
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
What is your daily budget on the ad set? That will be a factor as well. They will spread out your traffic over the day.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Aha - I bet that's it. I'm doing $10 daily right now, to save $. Just realized I was approaching this like Jango Radio Airplay, where you can ask the system to use up all your paid spins as fast as possible.
So I guess the play here would be a larger daily budget, with more frequent manual intervention from me in order to keep my costs under control. I also just emailed FB, so we'll see what they say. Thx John!
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
That's awesome Charley. Good on ya as I have never had any luck with any of FB's optimizing. I always pay through the rough if I go with that, and most I know report the same. But you're obviously doing something right on that one. I would warn anyone reading this that letting Facebook optimize your bidding is pretty risky. Most lose money with that strategy.
Yes, I would definitely warn people it is risky! I f'd up the other day!! LOL! But it is possible to do well, and so far I've had better luck doing it that way.
Yup, it was the budget for the campaign. I bumped it to $50/day and blew through $35 in about 90 minutes. Good to know.
"Radio Nowhere? What the hell is that? We wanted him to be a lawyer" — My Mom
Okay, so she didn't like it. But you just might! Loud guitars, award-winning songwriting, and visits from the devil.
Check it out and pick up a free EP here..
I'm going to try laser targeting using custom audiences, ad copy, photos, and squeeze pages. For example, make a custom audience of women between 35 and 55 who like smooth jazz and Massage Envy. Then make the ad copy, pics, and squeeze page all about relaxing to a free smooth jazz download. Maybe a pic of a woman getting a massage... Just thinking as I go... LOL!
Ok...well, Massage Envy + Smooth Jazz definitely limited the audience too much. Nevertheless, I am trying ads and squeeze pages targeted to women over 35 who like Massage Envy. I'll let you know how this goes. Here's a sample ad for the mobile squeeze page at http://www.charleylanger.net/s.....obile.html:
Mike - Glad you got that sorted.
Charley, good stuff. Let us know how that ad does.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
So, the hd focused on relaxation/massage did very well. I was able to keep my CTRs around 4%. My squeeze page was converting darn near 50%!! That was a fairly small sample… Around 35 subscribers or so.
Total, during this whole recent experiment, I spent $440 and added 352 subscribers. That's $1.25 per subscriber, which is a bit over what my subscribers value has been in the past. The orders are coming in. we'll see! I was not able to repeat my experience of $.72 per subscriber
I know why John likes Facebook advertising. It really is a lot of fun!! Much more fun than any other PPC experience I've had. There are so many variables that they give you to play around with. And, in the end, $1.25 is not a bad price for a subscriber. These ones seem much more active than the subscribers that I got with Yahoo/Bing/Microsoft ad network.
i'm going to keep experimenting. I will probably have to set my bids lower, and pay less per click. That will, of course, limit my traffic.
L
That's great Charley. $1.25 is actually pretty good in my opinion. It's hard to make that work on just a single CD sale, but so long as there is an upsell you should be able to profit. Even if you lose a little, imagine what you could do for your next album, were you to invest a little now on acquiring a list of fans. Great job, as always.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.