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1:55 am
June 7, 2011
Offline
QuoteHi Jimi,
I gotta be honest, I'm a little perplexed that you have come to that conclusion after watching those videos. Each one goes into quite a lot of depth about how to write copy pertaining to music.
As I've said several times above and in the lessons, the goal is to really tap into the experience that your target audience is seeking and make a bold claim about how your music will deliver that experience.
Doing the above should give your reader a sense of what the music sounds like.
I don't think there is an example that I give in any of the above lessons that doesn't do this.
Even in my own example that I use throughout my training...
"Kick off your boots, pour yourself a whiskey, and enjoy one of the most refreshing alt country artists in a very long while".
I don't think there is a person who could read that who wouldn't get a sense that the music I was offering would be rich with "Americana" imagery and sounds, but would lean alternative instead of mainstream country. And not a band is mentioned.
That said, mentioning bands is also ok, you just don't want to be so broad or diverse that you alienate one group while trying to appeal to another.
I'll be honest and say that the trouble you are having with communicating your brand so many weeks in has me a bit concerned about whether or not this kind of approach is right for you, as this is really just the beginning of the process and being able to intuitively get a feel for what your audience is perceiving in your messaging will be very important. It doesn't always come right away, but it needs to come. At this stage we have quite a bridge to gap in terms of getting a feel for this stuff. The exercises in those videos do a pretty good job of explaining the process and get you in the right mindset to come up with an effective headline, at least in my opinion.
My apologies if that's not the answer you're ultimately looking for.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
Thanks for your reply. There is a person who when reading your headline wouldn't get that sense of what you're offering: me. Most of the headlines in the videos don't give me a sense of the sound of the related artist.
Also, you say we need to intuitively get a feel for what our audience is perceiving. That's what I'd like to learn to do. The exercises so far haven't helped me achieve that (I'm basing this on your reactions to my attempts at them). So how do I develop this intuition?
Thanks,
Jimi
PS, I had come up with this headline, but I expect it's not going to be any good, either.
"Looking to leave reality for a little while? Coincidence Machine's music can help with that."
12:09 am
June 7, 2011
Offline
Hi Jimi,
Perhaps I should have restated that and said that there is not a person in my target audience that wouldn't get a sense of what the music sounded like. Based on your musical preferences it's a safe bet that you would not fit the profile of the average alt country fan. That said, I stand by the sentiment that most people, fans of that genre or not, would immediately understand that the artist behind that headline would be an alt country artist that leaned alternative while incorporating traditional Americana imagery. The proof of that is in the sheer fact that that headline has consistently converted well.
But I think it's time for some tough love Jimi.
At this stage I am concerned that direct to fan marketing is not an approach that will be effective for you. You have consistently had a hard time understanding the nature of branding and have looked to me to make that connection for you. I can understand where you are coming from, and you wouldn't be the first person to struggle with this. But there is a distinct difference between branding and marketing. Marketing is process and it is "pushes" people towards your message/music/art. Branding is an extension OF your art and it "pulls" people in.
To be effective with marketing we need to be able to externalize your brand and put it into words. You are ultimately responsible for conceptualizing your brand. I can teach you how to drive people towards an offer and create a funnel for that offer which will lead to more income per fan then by doing things with a traditional exposure model, and I can help give you exercises that will aid in the process of externalizing your brand, as I have done in the lessons I have linked to and others. But for whatever reason nothing that is being put forth seems to satisfy what you are looking for. Whether this is the result of a disconnect between you and my teaching style or a disconnect between you and this kind of a process, I couldn't say. But as we now spent many hours discussing your issues with branding and crafting a headline, the fact remains that there is a disconnect.
I do feel that you have made some improvements with your attempts and have said so along the way. But you have really only come back with a couple of headlines. Often it can take dozens of attempts and a lot of split testing. This is only the very tip of the iceberg with this process and if you are having this much trouble with a simple headline, I think you will have worse troubles when it comes to split testing, creating emails, and blog content.
None of this is being said to be discouraging, only honest.
When you say that you would like to learn how to intuitively understand things, I feel the need to point out that the literal definition of intuition is "a thing that one knows from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning". Exercises like those I linked to can help get you strengthen some of those instincts and make things unconscious become more conscious, but the responsibility for instinctively understanding who you are as an artist needs to come from you.
If you wish to proceed with the direct to fan marketing model then all you can do is go through those lessons, apply the exercises, and try your best to craft copy that is likely to connect with your target audience. Split test, take your best performer, and then split test it against new ad copy. Tweak until you are happy with the results. If you would like me to offer feedback on more headlines I am happy to do that.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
First: there are two headline I'd like your opinion on. The one I sent before:
“Looking to leave reality for a little while? Coincidence Machine’s music can help with that.”
and a dress up of it:
“Engage thrusters and blast off from reality for a little while with the music of Coincidence Machine.”
Also, I used the term "intuit" because you had in the previous post. If you feel that intuition is important, then I'd need to learn how to develop that.
You also said there seems to be a disconnect. I feel like I've been saying that for a while. It's good that you've seen that, but disappointing that you seem (and I might have this wrong) to be adopting the typical attitude that it's my problem, rather than your opportunity. When I get a student who doesn't seem to get the way I typical present stuff, by getting it sorted I end up taking my teaching to a higher level that not only helps that particular person (and those like them) but even makes my teaching more effective for those that didn't experience the disconnect. In internet courses (like yours) people seem to be fine w/ not making their program the best it can possibly be, which I find sad.
And, if I'm reading you correctly (and I might not be) you're saying this course teaching marketing, but what I really need to learn is branding. If that's so, where do I learn branding?
Thanks a bunch,
Twang!
7:16 am
August 6, 2016
OfflineJimi,
As someone who has been a part of this Insider Circle for roughly 12 months, been through MMM and then gone through the exact lessons John has been pointing you towards and come out the other side, I thought i might weigh in on this subject.
This stuff is hard mate, no doubt about it. Its also time consuming and can be extremely frustrating as well (as i am sure your finding out) but you know what...? Its all TOTALLY WORTH IT. All these lessons John has put together are priceless and are giving young indies like me, not only a fighting chance but a sense of empowerment. To, not directly, but in a round about way hint towards the lessons and information in these courses being sub par is out of order.
The saying "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink" rings very true to me whilst reading this thread.
I've followed this thread for a while and have also heard you chat to John once (i think) on a IC coaching call... and to be perfectly blunt mate it sounds like you just aren't willing to put in the work. Although you keep repeating the phrases like "I want to learn it", doesn't necessarily mean you do.. as an outsider looking in & reading this thread, it really just sounds like you want someone to do it for you.
I think that these lessons with in the Insider Circle tell someone everything they need to know & are as plain an simple as you could possibly ask for. If someone is having this much trouble understanding the concepts this early on, then traditional marketing and promotion is the route for them.
Again, I would like to stress i have absolutely NO involvement with John, his staff or Music Marketing Manifesto as a whole, other than being a paying customer.
Jordan
12:59 am
June 7, 2011
Offline
Thanks for chiming in Jordan. I really appreciate you saying all that.
This thread certainly takes the prize for most frustrating thread in the history of this forum, but it is what it is and I leave everyone here to read and form their own opinions.
Jimi, what I get from the majority of your communication is a constant feeling that you are unhappy with the strategies, advice, and service I provide.
From my perspective you are saying that you don't know who you are as an artist or brand and have spent a good deal of time discussing this in coaching calls, via email, and here in the forum. And while you have made some effort by posting a few headline ideas here in the forum, I have seen far more criticism than actual attempts at tweaking your campaigns. I have done my best to offer suggestions and links to lessons that I feel do a good job of teaching the things you are asking for help on. You clearly do not feel that way and that is your prerogative.
What I'm not interested in is the general negative and critical vibe that I get throughout your communication. To use words like "sad" and to suggest that I am not trying to make this program the best it can be is a offensive. Myself and Steve have taken a lot of time with you, offered links to four different lessons, spoken with you on a coaching call, in the MMM members area and via email. My personal feeling is that we have offered you a very high level of customer support and frankly, gone above and beyond.
The fact that you do not see that and have been consistently combative leaves me feeling that we are at an impasse. My advice for you would be to pursue a more traditional form of marketing as this approach, and/or my approach to teaching it does not seem to be to be what you are looking for.
For what it's worth, I have recorded a podcast episode that is specifically about branding, with your situation in mind. It should go live within the next two weeks. Perhaps that will help you a bit.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
I look forward to the podcast.
Jordan says I'm not willing to put in the work, but I feel I am. What work am I not putting in? I am asking this in earnest, as if there's something I'm not doing (or not doing properly) I'd like to know.
I provided some headlines, but still haven't gotten feedback on them (which you offered). Not sure how to proceed from there. Are these headlines better or worse than my previous? I can't really put in the work if I don't know what or how to improve.
Thanks,
Jimi
9:45 pm
June 7, 2011
Offline
Hi Jimi,
I didn't offer feedback because based on the critical nature of your post I really felt like we were at an impasse. You referred to my attempts to help as "sad" and suggested that I am not attempting to make this the best course possible. That really doesn't leave one feeling like continuing the dialogue. Life is short and I'm not interested in negative relationships. Not judging you, I'm sure you're a nice guy. But I'm not digging the tone.
I can't speak for Jordan, but I do agree with his assessment. We have been chatting for about three weeks about the same issue. Much longer if you count the email and MMM communication. While you have thrown out a few headlines for feedback, the work is in testing. I am not aware of you running a campaign in that time. I also have not seen many changes to the formatting, image, and body copy issues we discussed about your page.
I can give you feedback and point you in the right direction, but I am only one guy with one opinion. As I have said repeatedly throughout my training lessons, success with this stuff comes down to testing. You try something, you analyze the results, you adjust. The results you get will tell you if your headlines, images, targeting, etc is done well. I have experience and as such I have what I think is valuable feedback to offer, but even with that experience I am wrong all the time when it comes to predicting how an ad will do. It just comes down to testing, adjusting, and testing again. If you have a natural instinct for this stuff it tends to take less testing. if you don't, it can take a lot.
I'll make one more good faith attempt to help.
Your headlines that you submitted were...
“Looking to leave reality for a little while? Coincidence Machine’s music can help with that.”
“Engage thrusters and blast off from reality for a little while with the music of Coincidence Machine.”
I still don't get any sense of who you are or what your music is. What does leave reality really mean? What does blast off mean? Those are the key concepts in your headlines. I cannot imagine saying to a friend, you should check out Coincidence Machine. When you listen to them you feel as though you are blasting off into space. It just isn't specific. And even if I give your headline the benefit of the doubt and concede that you are suggesting that your music is either trippy, spacey, or full of energy. That is still very vague and would be very difficult to connect with a pre-existing passion or interest in any target audience. It assumes that progressive rock fans (or whoever you are targeting) are walking around thinking, man, I wish there was more trippy music. I don't think that's the case.
I am not that familiar with your music, nor am I a consultant on your campaign, so my feedback is superficial, but I looked over your squeeze page and the most interesting line was "Satan’s favourite lounge act". That has vibe. The most descriptive thing on the page was "A unique blend of jazz and rock".
So what if you tried something like "A unique blend of Jazz and Rock, 'Coincidence Machine' is Satan's Favourite Lounge Act".
Subheadline: And for a limited time you can download 3 of their latest songs, for FREE!
Note that I put the secondary quotes around your band name. I think without them it can sometimes be a little unclear that it;s your band name and instead soundlike more descriptive language. That may or may not be important.
For ad copy I would go with almost the same exact thing...
A unique blend of Jazz and Rock, "Coincidence Machine" is Satan's Favourite Lounge Act. Click to listen...
I CAN NOT promise you you will get results with that headline. But that would be the ind of thing I would try. I would split test against three different images. I do not think the one you are using is going to get you the results you want. I could be wrong.
Run a traffic campaign if your budget is less than $10/day, run a conversion campaign if it's more than that. If that doesn't work after, run an ad report and look for what segment of your audience is costing you the least. Create a new campaign and target those segments. If that still doesn't work, try either new images or new ad copy. Split test and split test until your prices start moving in the right direction. That is how you develop an instinct for what works. It's risky and may cost you money depending on how quickly you hone in on a successfully strategy. Do not proceed if you are not comfortable with that risk.
I hope that helps. All the best Jimi.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
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