Holy shit Mike! I just backed out of a pissing match on Craigslist with a bunch of musicians regarding this same subject. Some though that musicians should be happy to play for free, just for the love of music, and others (OK...ME!) argued that music is a business, just like any other, and musicians deserve to get paid a fair wage for their services. I thought I would escape to my safe haven of the insiders circle, But NOOOOOOO! I found this topic!.......sigh.....Well, ok, I was going to ask everybody their opinion on this anyway! You just beat me to it.

 Anybody who has spent much time on this forum has probably figured out by now that I am an old fart. In fact just two days ago I turned *7. (Oops, sorry about the typo!) My avitar and my promo pics are current, but nature blessed me with features that make me look much, much, younger than I really am. Lets just say that you could replace the * with a 3, and you would still have a long ways to go! I guess that kinda blows your theory about those over 30, huh?

I agonized over this topic for years. When I first decided to become a musician, I got very little support from most of the people in my life. I heard the usual BS....."get a real job"...."the public is fickle, you will be here today, and gone tomorrow" etc.

My own Mom compared me to Kenny Rogers, and she was almost panic stricken that my fans would drop me like a hot potato when the next new stud came along. I tried to reassure her that I was not trying to be Kenny Rogers, I was just trying to make a living.  (How ironic that many years later, just last August, I called my Mom to inform her that I was playing the same casino that Kenny had just performed at!)

I was, and still am, extremely fortunate to have a wife that accepts my passion for what I do, and has been a tremendous support all these years. I also have a wonderful son, now 21 years old, that is also like my best friend. I have to admit, I could have probably made a lot more money if I would have gone to work for Boeing, Microsoft, or even Walmart, but you have to consider....what is your life worth? Are you going to measure it strictly by money, or is happiness and personal satisfaction going to be what drives you? With that being said, I am also very firm on my position that being a musician is a "real job", and if you take the time to learn your craft, do your best, and constantly try to improve what you have to offer, then you deserve to be compensated.

My wife and I bought our first house during one of the so called "minor recessions" that happened several years before this current recession. (I wish the f*****g polititions would call it what it really is...a depression, but that is another topic!) When we walked in to the bank to apply for our loan we were told that there was no mortgage money available, and we didn't really stand much of a chance of getting a loan. When the loan officer saw on our application that I was a musician and my wife worked as a bartender and a cocktail waitress, he actually had the nerve to burst out in laughter! I was a bit younger then, and also a bit cocky, so my reaction resulted in a different loan officer taking over our application. Quickly. As in "right away sir!" Well guess what? Out of a few hundred people applying for a loan through that particular program, my wife and I were one of the of three loans that were approved. The reason? I had a stack of signed contracts, both past and future, that proved I was making a consistant income as a musician, and my wife had a complete record of her income, including tips, from her occupation as a bartender and a waitress. We weren't making a ton of money, but we had verifiable income, and were living within our means.

So now lets zip ahead a few years, to current times. We now live on an old farm with 14 acres of woods and pasture, with a vintage 1890 farmhouse that has become a lifetime restoration project (meaning I hope I get it done in my lifetime!) We also have a beautiful old barn that houses my woodworking shop and music studio, we owe absolutely no credit card debt, because we cut the cards up years ago and stopped living on income we didn't have, and paid those &**((#!@!1 cards off! We also paid off our mortgage ahead of time several years ago, and continue to live very frugally, and happy. When we shop at the grocery store, we rarely even go into the center isles where all the "prepared food" is. That stuff is just junk with hardly any food value, and a very high price tag. Instead we buy basic, real food, often times in bulk, and freeze it for later use. (Like the five fresh Salmon we bought right off the boat the other day for $1.50 per pound!) We heat our home with a wood stove, and I search Craigslist for companies with excess pallets that they are begging to have hauled away. For about 4 hours of work cutting up pallets, and about $15 dollars worth of diesel for my truck ( that I completly overhauled a while ago and should last me another 300,000 miles, at 23 miles per gallon!) I can keep my family warm and cozy for for about 1 1/2 -2 months this winter, not to mention getting a healthy dose of exercise. My woodshed is now overflowing, with about 2 years worth of firewood, from cut up pallets, and wood from my own forest.

I may be straying off topic here, but I am trying to make a point. Where do you want your life to go? What is important to you? Do you want to have several gold credit cards in your wallet, a huge mortgage payment, monthly car payments for flashy new cars, cable tv with all the movie and sports channels, pay dues to a gym that you might not use, lattes for breakfast, dinners out,etc. etc .etc. and have to slave away 40, 50, or more hours a week, year after year, doing something that you really don't enjoy? Or would you rather cut costs for things that really might not be that important in the overall scheme of things, and spend most of your life doing something you really love? I'm not saying anything is wrong with all of those things I just mentioned, just make sure that is what you want, and not just what "happens"

Have I made a lot of money? No....but I have made enough! Have I ever bought a new car? No, but my wife, son and myself all drive very dependable and presentable vehicles. What about retirement? Hell, I retired when I graduated from high school! I made a decision way back then that I was going to enjoy life, and I am! Retirement to me is a box that somebody puts you in when you haven't moved much recently and you start to stink and growing green fuzz. I plan to continue making music until that day finally comes. In fact, if I can figure a way to do it, I'm going to sing at my own funeral! I agree that this might not work for everyone, but it works for me. My family has never gone hungry, we have always had a good roof over our head, and for 15 years I even found enough time to donate about 600 hours per year back to my community, as a volunteer firefighter, fire chief, and EMT

Would I like to make more money? Hell yeah! That is why I am involved with, and have so much faith in MMM 2.0 and this forum! What a gold mine! I have to admit, that I was more than a bit concerned with the changes I have seen in the music industry over the past few years. I was wondering how I was going to fit in. Not giving up mind you, just wondering! I now have  the direction I needed. It's is taking a shit load of work, but so what? What else am I going to do? I have chosen this life, commited myself to it, so what choice do I really have?

So Mike, I guess I really can't give you a hard , fast figure as to "how much money is enough". That is something only you, and those close to you, can decide. This is not an easy life, and there are times when I have had my doubts and regrets. I have even tried other things. I was a general contractor, and also owned a custom cabinet/furniture shop for several years. But I never gave up on music. I may have done it part time for a while, and for a short time not at all, but it was still always there. Funny thing is though, when hard times hit, I always had music to fall back on, and have always had a way to make an income. This is what I am going to do when I grow up, whenever that happens!

I'm going to keep this short because I've already put in more than my 2 cents worth, but there is something I want to bring up.

Many musicians seem to get stuck in a rut of only focusing on bars when trying to book gigs. Unfortunatly, that seems to be where most of the "play for free" idea seems to spring from. Maybe it's because I am a solo musician, or the type of music I play, or what...I don't know, but bars probably provide the least amount of my income and bookings. Unless I have agreed in advance to do a benefit, or those few times last summer when I experimented by renting a booth space at an outdoor market and performed acoustic (I sold enough CD's and got enough gig leads to make it worthwhile) , I don't recall ever playing for free, and I usually perform on a pretty consistant basis. I do a lot of fair and festival type of events, fraternal organizations, cruise ship landings (on the dock, not on the ship) outdoor markets, art shows, concert in the park events, performance centers etc, and they all are very willing and happy to pay! If you do a good job, many of them will book you again for the same time next year before you even get all your gear packed up after the show! 

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm boasting here, I'm just trying to make a point. What is that old saying about insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting to get different results? The bar scene changed for me many years ago, so I expanded into other types of venues. I'm not saying never, I still do bars sometimes, and they are usually a lot of fun, but they are definitely not my focus anymore.

It's not that hard to find these kind of gigs either, but you have to work at it consistantly, and often times a year or more in advance. Chambers of Commerce are a good place to contact for a list of annual events in their area, and so are park and recreation departments. States and regions often have fair associations with annual conventions. Believe it or not, I even find several gigs each year from Craigslist! Many regions also have publications that list events. In my area, there is a 3 times a year publication called the Festivals Directory that covers Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Western Montana (That's the Northwest corner of the USA for those of you from other countries). Each issue lists over 4000 events, and I would quess that at least half of them need music. That's around 6000 possible gigs per year from one $65 yearly subscription! I learned long ago to pay a bulk rate for unlimited long distance phone service, and boy, do I use it!

OK, I lied...I said this was going to be short, didn't I! So, I'll just say I hope this helps, and stop here!

Your right about house concerts, I'm surprized I missed that one! A good resource is http://www.concertsinyourhome.com and http://www.houseconcerts.com

Btw, I just went back and re-read this entire thread. I know I already mentioned this, but Mike, I do apologize! Some of what I wrote seemed pretty harsh and scolding. That was definetly not my intent! I am just very passionate about some things, and get carried away sometimes Too late to delete it it I quess. I'll just enjoy the taste of my foot in my mouth for breakfast!

Anyway, thanks for starting this thread. Lots of good stuff from Annie, Steve and Dale too. I love this forum!