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privacy policy
November 11, 2018
3:28 am
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Hi John,

Hope you're good. 

I'm finally (a bit late I know!) getting around to making sure my privacy policy is GDPR compliant. I'm also getting a lawyer to check it over. 

I just generated a new one using a link you recommended a while ago https://dsgvo-muster-datenschu.....e/?lang=en . 

I just wanted to check some stuff with you because when I did MMM there were some plugins that I enstalled blindly following the course, without understanding what they were - so I just wanted to check a couple of things with you.

I ticked that I use cookies. Is this true?

I left these three sections blank as there were loads of things I didn't recognise. 

-section 4 - analysis tools?
-section 5 - internet advertising? (eg ADITION - didn’t mention fb)
-section 6 - online marketing e.g. Affilinet
 
Sound OK to you?
 
Also when I skim read the policy it generated, it said that I use double opt in, for 'legal reasons.' So I'm now assuming I need to turn the confirmed opt-in back on to be GDPR compliant. I remember from before, this means I lose a few subscribers... but I just happened to read a post you sent to someone else saying that having confirmed opt in off has meant lower open rates recently. How does that work?
 
It might explain why my email 1 has had lower open rates recently- it's gone down to 69%. I have been talking to Aweber about possible reasons for this, but they hadn't mentioned confirmed opt in.
 
Thanks,
 
Karen
 
 
November 12, 2018
9:21 am
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Hey Karen,

When it comes to Privacy Policies (or anything legal) I'm pretty nervous to give any advice. I am definitely not the guy to ask as I barely understand it all myself. 

I will say that in more than a decade working online I have not heard of a single case of people getting in trouble for mistakes in a privacy policy, unless they were doing pretty egregious stuff. Still, it is a legal document, and does technically have consequences. 

My approach is to just answer very liberally. Not sure if you use cookies, answer yes. Etc.

You can also take language from the privacy policy and search it in quotes to find others using the policy and see what they do in areas you are not clear on.

For me, analysis tools would be clicky and Facebook. Internet advertising would be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and partner sites. Affiliate marketing would be 1shoppigcart. But again, the answers would be different for everyone. Just answer liberally, and your lawyer can steer you right. I'd expect him/her to tear the while thing down, tell you it's all wrong, then give you their template. Usually that's what they do no matter what. But I'd be curious what you get back.

As for Aweber's double opt in... According to the first random source I Googled "It is not a requirement in the GDPR legislation to have double opt-in. You do not NEED double opt-in for GDPR to ensure compliance and consent.". 

However, you are correct, over the last year I have been seeing my open rates going down on the welcome email with most clients. In almost every case when I turn on the double opt in my open rates sky rocket. And intuitively, my conversion costs and rate usually get better as well. 

I believe what has happened is that Facebook's algorithm has got so good that when we have it turned off we train Facebook to target people more likely to enter fake email addresses, or addresses they don't monitor, thus driving all stats down in time. Just remember that if you turn it on, you will want to create a new ad campaign, because they old one will already be trained on the old segment.

That make sense?

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November 12, 2018
1:42 pm
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Since I'm just a guy in Iceland who has no liability, I'm going to be a little bit more reckless than John.

I've looked into GDPR a lot, and as far as I can tell it's astronomically unlikely you can get in any trouble for making mistakes in your policies. From what I hear, if you get something wrong (even if you didn't do any GDPR stuff at all), someone would first need to report you to some EU agency, which seems highly unlikely. They would then need to be bothered enough to contact you, and when they did, they would tell you what the problem was and ask you to fix it. You would probably need a couple of warnings before anything like a fine or whatever would happen.

We're very small fish. I don't think we need to worry too much. I just installed a GDPR plugin and figured if anybody tells me I'm doing something wrong, I'll fix it.

Now, as John says, it pays to be careful, and I'm playing this very recklessly. But I just find it so ridiculously unlikely that anybody would be bothered enough to report my web site that I don't really mind. And again, the EU would definitely issue a warning before they'd take any serious action.

So those are my two cents...

November 12, 2018
2:36 pm
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As a guy who teaches this stuff for a living there are some liabilities involved, should I give anyone any kind of legal advice. For that reason I sound very conservative in all of my answers so that my replies are as accurate as they can possibly be.

But my personal approach is very much in line withe Eyvindur's.

But-I-am-not-qualified-to-give-legal-advice-so-be-sure-to-check-with-a-lawyer-if-you-want-to-be-certain-you-are-compliant-with-the-law 🙂

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November 13, 2018
12:22 am
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Thank you Eyvindur and John for your thoughts.

I had an initial free chat with a lawyer who had been recommended to me. He said it was all about being really clear about the purpose of gathering emails- (possibly clearer than we are being). He offered to look at my setup and write me a privacy policy for £750. When I politely said that was out of the question for me, he said he would check over one I put together myself using a template, for £100.

It's tricky, I don't want to go over the top with this, but I guess my concern is one day that I'll discover I've built my list in a non-compliant way, and the only way to 'fix it' would be to lose parts/most/all of it like happened to lots of people around the GDPR deadline. 

Eyvindur, what's the purpose of a GDPR plugin?

I will turn my double opt in back on, as it sounds like a good idea all round. But I've noticed some people online are being more up front that when you get a free track, you are actually joining a newsletter, in some text right under their signup forms, some also with an extra box to tick. That's the bit I wonder whether we'll get in trouble for in the future. I'll see what the lawyer says...

John, just to check something with you:

You mention you use 1shoppigcart, and clicky. I don't think that is something we would have set up as part of MMM is it? Forgive me my memory is bad- I followed the course blindly installing things I didn't understand, and meant very little to me at the time.

Thanks comrades,

Karen

November 13, 2018
12:46 am
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The GDPR plugin basically sets up a notice that pops up when people enter the web site to notify them that I use cookies, and that they can change their settings if they want to (you see these on every web site these days). The notice then goes away, but if people want, they can opt out of cookies, and if they do, the plugin disables them. 

Technically you should include a checkbox that people need to check to indicate that they accept the terms and conditions, or even better, that they agree to receive emails. I haven't set that up yet, but I probably will at some point. It would just be a checkbox that is required in order to subscribe. I would think that the double opt in accomplishes the same thing, but who knows?

Again, I'm not really too concerned about this myself, but of course that's only my hide, so you should do whatever makes you feel comfortable with.

Now, on the other hand, I have another online business that is much bigger and gets a lot more traffic, and has a much bigger list, and for that I take every precaution. But that is a travel business that is licensed by the Icelandic Tourist Board, and on that site I would definitely get in trouble if I was sloppy. However, I'm just using the standard terms and conditions that come with the GDPR plugin for that. I have had experience with not complying with bureaucracy, and at least over here, they never start out with fines or punishments. They point out what you're doing wrong and give you ample time to fix it. 

So that's my take. And of course, like John, I'm a huge non-lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV, so take it all with a grain of salt.

November 13, 2018
12:54 am
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Thanks Eyvindur. 

Do we use cookies automatically with MMM? Tbh I barely know what they are but I know they are about gathering info.

Thanks again, and I hope you are enjoying hypnotising people with the northern lights :).

Karen

November 13, 2018
12:57 am
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I use the northern lights to force people to do what I want. "Tip handsomely, or I'll turn off the northern lights!"

The Facebook pixel is a cookie. So yeah, it's a pretty important part of MMM. Legally you need to allow people to turn that off. That said, I don't think anybody does.

November 13, 2018
1:02 am
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Ah I see. I didn't realise baked goods were such an integral part of my business. Thank you.

I don't blame you for weilding your icelandic powers over nature. I'd do the same in your position.

Thanks again.

November 13, 2018
9:44 am
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My understanding is that the Pixel is a a small image file that is placed on your site that records user activity to certain extent, and that cookies are bits of code that actually get installed on the users computer, and the two are different (the the term "cookie" is thrown around pretty loosely to mean both. And I thought one could turn off cookies but still get pixeled (though I might be wrong), but I have also read that the Facebook Pixel drops a cookie. So I have no idea. Just say ye to everything. It'll work out 🙂

***My lawyer has advised me to stress that I am joking and that always saying yes to everything will probably not always work out. Say yes at your own risk.

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November 13, 2018
9:56 am
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I could totally be wrong. I always thought the pixel was a cookie, but I have no idea. I'm not sure it matters, though. I think the GDPR guidelines simply refer to anything that tracks a user's behavior, so whether it's called a pixel or a cookie, if the user decides to disable it they can. I just don't think anybody actually does that.

November 13, 2018
10:45 am
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For sure. I'm pretty sure they are different but connected. But I'm also an idiot when it comes to the tech side of things, so I could be wrong. At the end of the day, the privacy concerns are the same.

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November 14, 2018
5:45 am
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Thanks both of you for your thoughts on this. 

Karen

November 16, 2018
12:32 pm
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\m/

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December 6, 2018
4:25 am
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Hi John and Eyvindur. 

I heard back from the lawyer who I asked about all this GDPR stuff - below you'll see my questions and his responses...

I have only skim read this myself at the moment (in December slumber mode!) but I thought I'd share it with you guys as it's concrete legal advice:

*****

I have generated a privacy policy based on this link https://dsgvo-muster-datenschu.....e/?lang=en

Here is my new policy: http://www.karengracemusic.net.....acy-policy

I use squeeze pages such as this, where people put there email address in after seeing an ad on Facebook http://www.karengracemusic.net.....ee-music-r.
You’ll see at the bottom that there is a link to the privacy policy. THAT’S FINE

So aside from any legal advice you have that I might not be aware of, my questions are:

1. Is the way I have set this up GDPR compliant? IT IS
2. I am assuming that I need to switch on the double opt in within my Aweber email management system, to be GDPR compliant- is that true? CORRECT
Organisations will need to obtain explicit consent for automated decision making, including profiling and if relying on consent as the lawful basis for processing sensitive personal data or for transferring personal data outside of the EEA.  The Guidance clarifies what is meant by “explicit consent” as this concept appears in the GDPR but isn’t defined.

Explicit consent requires a very clear and specific oral or written statement of consent.  For example, having the wording “I consent to receiving emails about your products and special offers” with an unticked opt in box.  Explicit consent cannot be obtained using any other positive action such as a clear affirmative action not involving a clear statement.  For example, having the wording “By entering your email address you agree to us sending you emails about our products and services” and a box for individuals to enter their email address, as this is implied consent rather than explicit consent.  To obtain explicit consent, organisations will also need to provide individuals with sufficient information about what they are consenting to, such as, the nature of the sensitive personal data, the automated decision and its likely effect or the data to be transferred outside of the EEA and associated risks.

3. You mentioned gathering records of how I’ve gathered personal data. Other than having it all there in my Aweber system, I wasn’t sure what other records I need? THAT IS SUFFICENT
4. The policy generator I used asked for my email address and phone number which is now on display in my policy. I’m not too comfortable about my phone number being on my website.
Do I definitely need it there for legal reasons? IN MY VIEW YOU DON’T

THE ONLY OTHER THING IS CLARIFICATION  OVER KAREN GRACE MUSIC. IS IT A LIMITED COMPANY IF SO THE FULL NAME SHOULD BE STATED. IF NOT THEN THE CORRECT LEGAL ENTITY NEEDS TO BE STATED WHICH WOULD BE KAREN GRACE TRADING A KAREN GRACE MUSIC

December 6, 2018
10:27 pm
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Thanks Karen. I was bracing myself to be told everything I have told you is wrong. Happy to see that we are all more or less in line with his advice. Far be it from me to challenge a lawyer, but I actually don't know that he is 100% about the double opt in requirement, or that it is quite as strict as he is stating.

This from Aweber (I have seen similar sentiments expressed in many places)...

Myth #3: “I need to use double opt-in to be compliant with the GDPR.”
Double opt-in (a.k.a confirmed opt-in) is when your subscribers sign up for something — like a newsletter — and then they’re asked to also confirm their subscription.

Some “experts” are stating that the GDPR requires double opt-in to prove consent.

This is incorrect.

As I mentioned in myth #1, the GDPR simply requires that you can prove the compliant consent. The act of entering personal information into a signup form and clicking “submit” can be considered an affirmative action, as long as the subscriber was clearly and directly informed of what they are accepting.

However, double opt-in is not necessarily a bad thing. There are lots of great reasons to use it, including better subscriber engagement and deliverability. You just don’t need to use it to be compliant with the GDPR.

But regardless, I am turning double opt in on, on just about everything lately. Everything just performs better when I do.

Thanks for sharing that Karen!

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February 2, 2019
10:43 am
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Hello All,
I'm just having a go at doing my privacy policy. It really is dull isn't it? However, this discussion is making it a feel a lot easier and quicker than it would otherwise be so thank you, particularly to you Karen. It's greatly appreciated, particularly as I'm also in the UK where GDPR is now such an issue.

February 4, 2019
1:23 pm
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I am one of those people that deplores contracts and all things with legal consequences. GDPR is no fun. But as long as you are using ethical and established systems like Aweber and Paypal (or any reputable and secure shopping cart) and disclosing your use of cookies and pixels, I can't imagine there being much of an issue. But of course, I am not a lawyer and not qualified to give legal advice 🙂

Here is a list of all of the enforcement action taken so far: https://ico.org.uk/action-weve.....forcement/

You can click on each case to see what the company did and how much they were find. I only scanned t, but they all seem to be pretty huge companies doing things they shouldn't be. I see two smaller individuals. One was a doctor's office and one involved school children so obviously more egregious offenses). But even in those cases the fines were less than £1000.

If you really want to play it safe you can add a cookie plugin that requires a person to click accept. But I have not personally done that.

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