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8:08 am
June 10, 2011
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QuoteJohn asked me a great question:
Question… Your CPC is fantastic. Are you maxed out on your potential traffic, or are you getting a low CPC because you are bidding with bottom of the barrel prices but in turn, slowing down your traffic? It just seems that if you can sustain those prices and conversion rates you should be scaling this up pretty dramatically so that you can pull in a few hundred subs a day.
The answer is: I'm bidding bottom of the barrel prices, but slowing down my traffic. I'm also only bidding on a few key words and keeping my daily budget down.
Why? Yeah...it's safe...I'm coming out ahead.
But it seems horribly inconsistent when I'm seriously considering starting a campaign to raise $17k for radio promotion. (Yes, I know I said I've done radio promo before. The one I did before was comparably cheap. The one I'm considering now was recommended to me by someone who manages some heavy hitters who are looking pretty sweet on Billboard at the moment.) But...man! if I'm willing to gamble with $17k, why am I penny pinching my PPC? Over a year, that works out to about $45/day to spend on ads.
Right now I use $0.40 as an estimate for my cost to get one subscriber using PPC. I've actually been doing better than that. Let's say that I stop penny pinching. I can't imagine spending more than $0.60/subscriber. At my current subscriber value, I "break even" at $$0.60/subscriber. If I spend $17k on PPC, that should yeild a minimum of 28k on my list. But I currently get more subscribers than those I actively promote to because social media multiplies my efforts, so it will be more than that.
What is the value of a list the size of 30k? And if I geo-targeted the major cities within a day's drive... Hmmm... I'd love to have five or six cities where I can tell venue owners I have 5,000 fans in the vicinity that I can email.
Any flaws in my thinking? Comments?
I've got Market Samarai out right now for keyword research, and I'm opening the faucet. I'll letcha know...
12:58 pm
June 10, 2011
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From a business perspective, I would put the money into the process that works
for you, the PPC. I feel that the quality of fan and the potential of them buying
from you long-term will be higher than "listeners" who may have heard a song
on the radio. This also means your ROI will be higher.
I also believe that it would take promoting more than one song to cause
a casual listener to seek out a CD or website. I'm not sure of the terms of the
promotion include more than one song or not, but compared to the known factors
and calculable return of your system, your method has radio promotion beat
by a long shot!
Maybe I should have just typed, "ramp up the PPC!"
I hope this perspective is somewhat helpful 
1:37 pm
August 27, 2011
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Charley Langer said:
John asked me a great question:
Question… Your CPC is fantastic. Are you maxed out on your potential traffic, or are you getting a low CPC because you are bidding with bottom of the barrel prices but in turn, slowing down your traffic? It just seems that if you can sustain those prices and conversion rates you should be scaling this up pretty dramatically so that you can pull in a few hundred subs a day.
The answer is: I'm bidding bottom of the barrel prices, but slowing down my traffic. I'm also only bidding on a few key words and keeping my daily budget down.
Why? Yeah...it's safe...I'm coming out ahead.
But it seems horribly inconsistent when I'm seriously considering starting a campaign to raise $17k for radio promotion. (Yes, I know I said I've done radio promo before. The one I did before was comparably cheap. The one I'm considering now was recommended to me by someone who manages some heavy hitters who are looking pretty sweet on Billboard at the moment.) But...man! if I'm willing to gamble with $17k, why am I penny pinching my PPC? Over a year, that works out to about $45/day to spend on ads.
Right now I use $0.40 as an estimate for my cost to get one subscriber using PPC. I've actually been doing better than that. Let's say that I stop penny pinching. I can't imagine spending more than $0.60/subscriber. At my current subscriber value, I "break even" at $$0.60/subscriber. If I spend $17k on PPC, that should yeild a minimum of 28k on my list. But I currently get more subscribers than those I actively promote to because social media multiplies my efforts, so it will be more than that.
What is the value of a list the size of 30k? And if I geo-targeted the major cities within a day's drive... Hmmm... I'd love to have five or six cities where I can tell venue owners I have 5,000 fans in the vicinity that I can email.
Any flaws in my thinking? Comments?
I've got Market Samarai out right now for keyword research, and I'm opening the faucet. I'll letcha know...
Hey Charley,
I just wanted to applaud your courage to be able to post this message. Most people only want to convey confidence and display their successes - you have been achieving success but are now questioning your approach and whether you're not purposely holding yourself back on some level.
As for my opinion, for what it's worth I haven't done any radio promo and I haven't entered into PPC either - so I'm not sure how much it will help you out. I am inclined to agree with Tim when it comes to the quality of the radio promo. In my mind the radio promo will only be effective if it gets more people onto your squeeze page and into your funnel. Radio is a tricky medium to get people to do this, since they'd have to hear your ad several times and jot down or attempt to memorize your URL...
On the other hand, the PPC is working for you and you're confident with it. You seem to have a good handle on the numbers as well. The saying is that the money is in the list - the list is your direct link to the audience with ZERO middle man. When you have direct access to an audience, as you point out - venues will be more than happy to have you perform. Do this a little while and see how what your conversion is from those reading your emails to showing up in real life - then use those numbers when you're negotiating.
One word of caution however; having a list of 32k would be amazing - but without continual 'product' offerings, chances are you'd get a spike of income when people first find you (and buy your stuff) and then your income could become almost zero until you have something new to offer them. How effective is your funnel and your product offerings? If you were able to sell almost $100 worth of music to your optins within say the first two weeks of signing up x 32k would really allow you to do things however you want. Then you'd have a secondary income from your live performances.
Which makes me ask - what is it that you really want to achieve here? Do you want the online stuff to allow you to play more frequently? Tour?
Or do you want to sell products online mainly and pick and choose the number of shows you perform with an excellent chance at playing to capacity because of both the size of your list and your relationship with it?
There's no wrong answer here, and I'm sure there are other potential variations on what you can do - but I think having a 'big picture' to how you want to get your PPC and list working for you will allow you to chart your path going forward.
You could scale up, you could do your 17k on the radio promo or you could hedge your bets and cut your radio budget in half and put the other half into ppc.
Hopefully I'm not over complicating things here. You're a smart guy and are in an enviable position and I think if you figure out exactly what you want to accomplish with your promotional efforts that you'll be better able to choose the path that's right for you.
12:57 am
June 7, 2011
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Good luck with radio Charley. I don't want to scare you off of it because there are success stories out there, but I think Indie Radio is just about the best way to lose money there is. I spent a good 20 or 30 grand (I actually don't remember) on indie radio with the biggest indie company on the west coast at the time who we had personal friendships with. While they got me some spins, it didn't amount to anything in terms of sales. It's one of the main turning points in my head in terms of realizing that copying the majors was not going to work for me.
I think you would do far better to put the money into geo-targeted online advertising. Build yourself a solid following in 4 or 5 cities and then perhaps look at radio in those markets down the line, when you know you already have a foundation there.
But of course I have no crystal ball. Your radio investment may very well do the trick. I just personally cringe every time I hear someone say they are going to spend money on radio.
Keep us posted.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
6:13 pm
June 10, 2011
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John Oszajca said:
Good luck with radio Charley. I don't want to scare you off of it because there are success stories out there, but I think Indie Radio is just about the best way to lose money there is.
I think you would do far better to put the money into geo-targeted online advertising. Build yourself a solid following in 4 or 5 cities and then perhaps look at radio in those markets down the line, when you know you already have a foundation there.
But of course I have no crystal ball. Your radio investment may very well do the trick. I just personally cringe every time I hear someone say they are going to spend money on radio.
Actually, I was kinda hoping you'd reach through my monitor and slap me. I'm just being real with my struggles and the conflicts in my thinking. 
What you're saying, of course, makes perfect sense to me.
I was shocked when I realized I was considering the prospect of gambling with other people's money on a lottery ticket, but I was being a scrooge with my own money on PPC. I'm sharing this because there may be others on this forum who are willing to take silly risks with a lot of money, but are having a hard time (like me) taking caclulated and relatively small risks that make sense.
6:14 pm
June 10, 2011
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Tim Curry said:
Maybe I should have just typed, "ramp up the PPC!"
I hope this perspective is somewhat helpful
It is. Thanks, Tim!
6:31 pm
June 10, 2011
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Mike Ippersiel said:
Hey Charley,
I just wanted to applaud your courage to be able to post this message. Most people only want to convey confidence and display their successes - you have been achieving success but are now questioning your approach and whether you're not purposely holding yourself back on some level.
Thanks, Mike. I'm hoping we can learn from each other's struggles as well as successes. That's why I'm sharing.
When you have direct access to an audience, as you point out - venues will be more than happy to have you perform. Do this a little while and see how what your conversion is from those reading your emails to showing up in real life - then use those numbers when you're negotiating.
That was sort of my general thinking.
One word of caution however; having a list of 32k would be amazing - but without continual 'product' offerings, chances are you'd get a spike of income when people first find you (and buy your stuff) and then your income could become almost zero until you have something new to offer them. How effective is your funnel and your product offerings? If you were able to sell almost $100 worth of music to your optins within say the first two weeks of signing up x 32k would really allow you to do things however you want. Then you'd have a secondary income from your live performances.
Yeah, I definitely need more in my funnel. Fortunately, I have more than CDs, and people are buying more from me than CDs. But I need to expand. No question. You are right!
Which makes me ask - what is it that you really want to achieve here? Do you want the online stuff to allow you to play more frequently? Tour?
I feel like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark. "I don't know, I'm making this up as I go!" Seriously, I think I'll find the right mix. I want to play more live. I want to sell online. One thing I know -- I have friends who have been slaves to the road and have lost their families. I'm NOT going to do that!
12:51 am
June 9, 2011
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Charley Langer said:
Actually, I was kinda hoping you'd reach through my monitor and slap me.
LOL! Is there an app for that? 
Charley, seriously bud, you've been killing it with PPC. Scale it up, let social media help you along and start picking off cities. In fact I believe you can target your PPC to specific cities. Set up campaigns to target cities, find out which cities are giving you the best subscriber value or conversions and scale them up until you have those 5K lists you're looking for for performances.
Also maybe you can try to seek out some JV's who have followings in those cities too (or a big, targeted list in general)
I think 17K will go a loooooong way in renting lists, as well.
5:19 am
June 7, 2011
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Yeah dude. I believe you said you were paying around 40 cents a sub.... I can't remember. Let's call it .50/ That's 34,000 subscribers if it holds up when you scale up. divide that by 5 cities... Imagine 6,800 subs in each of your 5 cities on your residency route...
As it stands you are profiting on your front-line products. Imagine the income you could bring in from the live shows with such a concentrated list.
Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.
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