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The worst Facebook advertising experience...
July 20, 2011
6:04 am
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Is started with an ad campaign as described by John in MMM2.0.

I found the latest update from the artist I am greatly inspired by and used this as the basis to write an article about him, this is the landing-page I sent my clicks to. At the bottom of the article there is a reference to my own music and a link to the squeeze-page. So, let's start running the adds!

Wow, this goes actually pretty well! I get a CTR of just under 1% and the price per click keeps dropping, till it is $0,05 per click. My first $9 gets me 160 clicks. My landingpage is converting around 35% and my squeezepage the same. So I quickly have 18 confirmed subscribers, that actually downloaded my track. Do the math: for about $0,50 per active subscriber!

Then, when I'm really feeling good about this automated success, I get an email from the artist I wrote about. Who I really admire and love…

"oh jasper, that advert is one of the most embarassingly desperate and shameless things i've seen in a long time. plus, i think it's quite rude to take someone else's post and turn it into a commercial without even notifying that person. i can only feel pity – you must be terribly inconfident about your own work if you think this is the only way to get some attention. i'm very critical of my music as well – if i'd feel that way though i'd rather lock myself in the studio until i had the impression i came up with something sufficiently original – keep it up, man and if possible please avoid such missteps for the future – believe me, it's for your own good"

I think I don't have to explain how bad I feel right now…?

Jap Jap chillout ambient electronic music

July 20, 2011
7:27 am
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Hey Jasper,

Yeah, I can imagine that does suck. It's a bit shocking to be honest. Without knowing who the artist is or reading the squeeze page you posted, the guy/girl sounds like a bit of a jerk.

The idea behind the strategy is fairly simple and used across many many markets. Find something people are interested in, offer value related to that subject, and then offer a link to additional related value, which is your product.

The only thing I might say is that it sounds like you actually copied his post, while I think that his/her reaction is pretty lame, that would be copyright infringement and I suppose someone might have the right to be upset about that. The training module you are referring to in MMM teaches you to create unique content. Make sure you do that going forward. But even still, I can't imagine having that reaction if someone used something I wrote and then linked to something else. In fact it happens to me all the time.

Sorry to hear you had to deal with that, I can understand that it's a real bummer. I've never seen or heard about anything like it. My guess is that the fact that you used his/her content (assuming that is the case)( set this particular person off. In my opinion he/she's pretty out of line.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

July 20, 2011
12:39 pm
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Jasper,

 

Yeah I haven't seen the the work in question, but If I understand you correctly, you simply took some momentum from an update that an artist you admire created.

So basically, if I'm right here, you didn't steal the update, you just created something new that highlights the artist and then offered your own music on the coat-tails right?

If that's the case, here's what I think you're dealing with...

This artist, that you seem to admire... either really doesn't understand marketing or reallllllly hates intelligent competition.

If I were that artist, I would have thanked you for the press and possibly tickled the idea of cross promoting with you.

Again, this is all assuming that you did create an original work.

Of course, perhaps if that artist spent a little more time involved with marketing... and less time being self important, he/she would realize that they just might have an new friend who could actually teach them a thing or two.

Now in the case where there is some copyright violation, he/she would have done much better to send you a simple heads up, without  intentionally trying to squash your ambition.

Either way, personally I'm glad to see you tackling ppc and seeing some results with it.  The lesson learned is that not everyone likes to have things written about them.  Again though, I have not read what was written, so I don't have the whole story.

Even still, if there is some questionable material there, you take your lumps apologize and carry on  business as usual.

EVERYONE makes mistakes calibrating into this stuff... in fact most people suck at it at first.  I know I did...

-Steve

July 20, 2011
3:04 pm
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Thanks for your reply Steve.

I didn't want to mention the artist-name in the forum of the chance this getting out somehow. John sent me an email for this same reason to discuss this more in depth with him.

It's a producer who's actually a really nice guy and has always been very nice to me. I've sent him countless of demo's and mails and he always responded to those messages.

This must have triggered something as you say. Maybe the subject I write about is sensitive. I wrote an original article using quotes from his update. Maybe it just felt too personal...

Well, I've moved on, sort off... Now running the same add for a few more days excluding the UK where he resides at the moment. It was doing amazingly well and I really needed that. Hope he doesn't see it or hear from it again... 😉 When I have more time I think of a different ad and landing-page.

Cheers, Jasper

Jap Jap chillout ambient electronic music

July 20, 2011
4:50 pm
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Off hand, did you happen to reply to the producer to find out what exactly it was that set him off?

Usually these things can be ironed out with a little dialogue.

July 20, 2011
10:47 pm
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Wow, I'd have to agree with John....this guy sounds like a jerk! Or at least he's pretty out of touch with how things work. Your story is actually kind of inspiring, You followed the information from MMM, and you were getting results. I hope you don't let it discourage you. How many times have you been told your music sucks? I know I have! Somehow the sting from comments like that overshadow the compliments, at least for a while. But we're all still doing music. There's no way I'm going to let some asshole deter me! I hope you just treat this like some heckler in the audience, and keep on with your progress!

What would a jam session with Gordon Lightfoot, Collective Soul, and Damien Rice sound like?

Check out Greg Parke and you’ll have a pretty good idea!

http://www.gregparkemusic.com

July 21, 2011
5:30 pm
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Hey Jasper.

Man, I feel for you.  I even felt deflated as I read his reply!  Some people are just "anti-commercialism" regardless of the circumstances.  

I agree with Steve.  It might be worth contacting him back, offering a word of apology (even though I don't think you have anything to be sorry for), and explaining what you're trying to do a little bit, explain that your associating you music with him is purely out of your admiration of his work.

He may have just fired off the rude email in a fit of frustration and may even feel a little bad about it.  Strangely, a lot of times people will totally open up when you engage them and start a dialog after an unfortunate exchange.  A little mix of "i'm sorry for stepping on your toes" and flattery might just turn this into a positive thing

 

Just my 2 cents.  I hope it works out man.

July 22, 2011
4:31 am
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And the other positive is that you got subscribers at $0.50 a pop. You can do that again. And if each subscriber was worth $0.75 (very doable), that would be a nice little money-making machine. Cool

 

July 22, 2011
6:53 am
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Thanks for your reactions. I have emailed the producer (who is not a jerk in my personal opinion) with an apology and explanation. As I still do feel quite bad about this I've decided to stop running this specific ad. Don't get me wrong, I will continue this very tactic, but maybe do more research about who I reference and what topic I write about.

This was the reply:

thanks for taking the time to respond, jasper - and keep in mind: this is not a personal dispute - my criticism should be 
understood on a professional level - i'm not angry at you as a person! 
however, i think it's really important that you understand that this is not a good way of handling things - people have 
actually now started posting about this on my wall and i'm also receiving emails about this - it's probably painful for 
you to read it but this is one of them:
 
Take a minute and check this. It's important bullshit.
This dude uses your name and face in a fake Facebook Advert that popped up on my page
just because I am listed as a fan of yours.
And when you click on it you're lead to some fake article (see link) about something you supposedly tweeted.
Then at the bottom of the "article" there's a link to "DOWNLOAD FREE TRACK."
And all along your fans are thinking they're downloading a new track of yours.
But instead it's some motherfucker calling himself Jap Jap (see email below).
And he namedrops you and says the track is "inspired" by you
AND IT SUCKS. It sounds like a complete parody of your work.
 
i'm not saying i agree with the message above and its harsh tone in particular but you should consider that this is the 
potential outcome of the marketing methods you've chosen - especially as the guy who wrote this is a colleague from 
new york working in the music industry - it's not gonna help your career making enemies in that field, believe me!

Jap Jap chillout ambient electronic music

July 22, 2011
9:51 am
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The more I read from this guy the harder it is for me to track with where he's coming from at all. Maybe there is a language barrier, not sure. He fires off one of the most insulting emails I've ever read and then says it's nothing personal. Furthermore, the attacks he is making, and even the email he is quoting is completely inaccurate based on what I read on your actual landing page (sent to me via email). You are not misleading people to think that they are downloading the artist in question's music at all.

I can appreciate the fact that you are sticking up for this guy, but he really does come off as a jerk. At least in my opinion.

It really kind of upsets me to see you having to deal with something like this, after all, it's my advice you're following. I just re-read your landing page and as far as I can tell, you did not violate any copyrights, you simply wrote a flattering article and then said if you like this guy's music you might also like your music (as someone who was inspired by him). This guy is off base.

One thing to point out... there are ZERO marketers out there who don't get some negative feedback from time to time. In fact it's often the most successful marketers that get the most negative feedback. That's the thing with "direct response marketing". It's designed to solicit a response. When you stick your neck out, some people aren't going to like it. But the alternative is to be passive which won't get you anywhere accept by fluke.

Everyone who engages in direct response marketing is going to get some negative feedback. You can't listen to it. All you can do is listen to your own ethical code, obey copyright and trademark laws (Disclaimer: check with a lawyer because I'm not one), and pay attention to results. I've had people send a nasty email or two about the way I market with MMM, I've also had an affiliate email me with a quote from one of his subscribers about how what I was doing seemed "spammy", but the reality is I just don't care! Those people were never going to be customers, I believe in what I'm doing, and at the end of the day I have one of the most successful music marketing products out there because I market the way that I do. The other reality is that I have about 300 positive emails for every negative one, actual life and career changing testimonials. But somehow the negative ones seem to stick so much more than the positive ones, which is why I'm writing all this. Some people are just negative and pride themselves on criticizing others. It's actually a pretty predictable percentage of people out there.

And while I know that you are aware of this, at the end of the day you were paying about 5 cents a click and getting a 35% conversion rate. That's fantastic!

Bottom line, if someone complains, stop basing your advertising on them and move on. But I really sense that this guy lives in a pretty negative space to be reacting like that. But that's just my opinion. I obviously don't know him.

If you want to be cautious you might try avoiding smaller artists that are not used to seeing campaigns based on them like that, and you might also avoid piggy backing on active news. I think it's really great and affective way to go, but it may get the occasional negative reaction. Or, throw caution to the wind and just keep doing the same thing but with different artists.

Getting back on track with the campaign itself, that price per click is awesome. You might try combining the landing page and the squeeze page to some extent and seeing if it boosts your conversion rate. If you were able to hold the conversion rate and not lose people to the second step, you might be able to drop your subscriber cost to less than 20 cents. It would be worth playing with at any rate.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

July 22, 2011
11:41 am
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Thanks for taking the time to give your point on view on this John.

I understand there will always be people who don't like something and send a negative reaction. It's also very true that a negative reaction somehow sticks with me alot more than positive feedback.

Today I got another email about this from a guy I googled and found to be "a former literary editor and executive editor of The Nation magazine and a regular contributor to Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, Bookforum and other publications." He wrote me this:

The tune is interesting enough and I may even try to hear more from you but first… I am curious about why you used a “bait and switch” advert on Facebook that led me to the download. Admittedly, I am upset that you’d use an artist whose music I am very fond of, good name to get me to your site and download. This is wrong. What is your affiliation with him?

So naturally I start worrying and this overshadows the success I have with this method.

But I shouldn't forget that, as you say, there are many others who now discovered my music. People who would otherwise never have known I existed. Let me share a positive twitter reaction to get back in a positive state of mind about all of this:

BEAUTIFUL track! Brought me to tears and gave me goose bumps!

Good advise about combining the landingpage with the squeezepage. I'm pretty sure this can increase the conversion. I had already thought about adding the sign-up form directly to the landingpage, but I thought I'd try your method exactly as you offered it. After running the advert a little while longer I've already seen my total costs per active subscriber lowered to about $0,38. This is because the CPC started higher. And… I got a €20,- sale today from a subscriber who purchased my music after the first email. The follow-up sequence will arrive at a more direct sales-approach (with time-pressure, scarcity etc.) after 2 weeks, so now I will monitor the 130 new subscribers I gained after my $50 investment test-run, and hopefully see my investment returned. Then I can start scaling this up, using a bigger artist who can handle some free press… 😉

Jap Jap chillout ambient electronic music

July 22, 2011
12:00 pm
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That's great to hear that you are already seeing some sales as well. Shows it's working. I'm still perplexed at the reaction. I've done a lot of advertising like this, as have many of my colleagues and I've never seen a reaction like this. All I can think is that perhaps you've touched on a bit of a sensitive, holier than thou, audience.

It's not a real bait and switch if you deliver relevant content about an artist. Think about it like this... Imagine if Rolling Stone had written an article about Bob Dylan, and then advertised the key point of the article on Facebook and then linked back to their article about it. It wouldn't be a bait and switch if they were making the money on the advertising, or a call to action at the end of the article.

The only thing that I can think after reading your landing page is that the call to action is a bit seamless with the article. I personally think that's really well done, but if it's getting a negative reaction you might want to try restating your content so the piggy backing is a complete bit of content and your call to action is stated separately, perhaps leaving the other artist out of the call to action itself.

Going back to my example in MMM, I asked a trivia question in the add, answered it on the landing page, and then after I answered it I directed readers to some additional content. It's a bit cleaner and might help you avoid this kind of thing in the future, though I suspect this is isolated.

Nonetheless, the positive reaction, and the sale shows that things are working.

But with all of that said, if ever the owner of the brand tells you to stop you need to stop, it's akin to a cease and desist.

Congrats on the sale.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

July 22, 2011
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Yeah Jasper Congrats on the sign-ups and sales.

Like I mentioned earlier.  There is going to be a calibration period while you hone the skill.  When I first started advertising, without knowing much about direct- response, I found it hard to do things without a bait & switch.

It's confusing... on one hand you want people to visit your site to check out related content, but in the back of you mind you're thinking "I want to get a sale out of this".  After a while, you'll find yourself pulling off the sale with some real savvy without any type of bait and switch.

I know what you're saying about the negative staying with you.  You're throwing content out into the unknown thinking "I hope this works..." then some jerk comes along and tells you to go screw.  That does stick with you.  In the case of the producer I would have gotten in touch to see what the issue was, but for most people who want to neg me, I take a, "I wasn't fucking talking to you anyway!" approach and just ignore them.

Let the sales speak for themselves.  Be proud of what you're doing.  The rest can go eat shit.  🙂

-Steve

July 24, 2011
5:40 pm
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Steve Rodgers said:

Yeah Jasper Congrats on the sign-ups and sales.

Like I mentioned earlier.  There is going to be a calibration period while you hone the skill.  When I first started advertising, without knowing much about direct- response, I found it hard to do things without a bait & switch.

That's actually a good point which people don't really talk about for some reason. In private I've talked about this with other big name marketers and everyone sort of feels the same way. When you first start off you end up largely copying others. After a while you start to develop your own style and tone. Then eventually you're successful enough that you don't even care about maximum conversion rates or any of that and you just right purely from a creative place, knowing that your audience is big enough and loyal enough that what you are doing will work regardless. That is when things really become powerful because you know all this voodoo marketing stuff, but you don't operate from a place of fear. I'm only just starting to get there myself. The more I don't care, or just have fun with the stuff I've put out there, the better it seems to do.

...But before I drift to far off course... As Steve said, there is definitely a period of calibration where you learn what works best for you and your audience.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

July 24, 2011
9:44 pm
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I think it's also important to note... direct response is a SKILL, not a grapefruit league.  If it were easy, not only would everyone do it, but they'd all be massively successful.

To be totally transparent...  I sucked at first.  Even today I'll do a piece that I think is a total lock, but it will fail miserably.  This is why knowing your conversions is so important.  If you can see the numbers, you don't have to beat a dead horse.  Just send him off to the glue factory and come up with a new piece before you lose your shirt.  Especially with Pay per click. 

You'll know very quickly if it's the marketing that failed or the targeting that failed.  If the marketing is bad, people might opt-in but never buy (or low opt-in rate).  If the targeting is bad, you don't get clicks or opt-ins.

 

If you're getting opt-ins, but no sales, you know the offer needs adjusting.

I still think that producer could stand to learn a lot from Jasper, but it sounds like he'll never give himself the chance.

July 25, 2011
12:39 am
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Is anyone else getting the text on the right side of the page in this topic cut off? There is some pretty important info in here, and I can't really get all of it.  

What would a jam session with Gordon Lightfoot, Collective Soul, and Damien Rice sound like?

Check out Greg Parke and you’ll have a pretty good idea!

http://www.gregparkemusic.com

July 25, 2011
6:50 am
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Thanks Steve, good to hear not everyone does this right the first time 🙂

@Greg: I have no problem with viewing this topic...

Jap Jap chillout ambient electronic music

July 25, 2011
3:12 pm
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Hmm..ok. If it's just me then I won't worry about it, since it is only happening in this thread, and none of the others. I did scroll all the way back to the begining of this thread, and every post spills off the right side of the frame, including the last posting I did, losing about 15-20% of the page. I'll do some poking around to see if I accidently changed a setting on my computer?

What would a jam session with Gordon Lightfoot, Collective Soul, and Damien Rice sound like?

Check out Greg Parke and you’ll have a pretty good idea!

http://www.gregparkemusic.com

July 25, 2011
5:32 pm
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Ok, I just checked this out on my wifes computer, and the right side of the page is cut off there too, so it's not just my computer. Any one else having this problem? Not a big deal since it is only in this thread, but it might be a problem if it starts to happen in other threads

What would a jam session with Gordon Lightfoot, Collective Soul, and Damien Rice sound like?

Check out Greg Parke and you’ll have a pretty good idea!

http://www.gregparkemusic.com

July 26, 2011
9:56 am
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Greg Parke said:

Ok, I just checked this out on my wifes computer, and the right side of the page is cut off there too, so it's not just my computer. Any one else having this problem? Not a big deal since it is only in this thread, but it might be a problem if it starts to happen in other threads

Looking fine here. Try a different browser and see what happens. If anyone else is experiencing this be sure to let me know.

Having trouble with your marketing? Wish you could have an experienced direct-to-fan marketing expert look over your actual campaigns, music, or content and offer feedback? Or perhaps you’re just looking for a little one-on-one assistance so you can ask questions that pertain to your specific goals and get a second, more experienced, perspective? Click here to book a session with me now.

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